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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#491

Post by 93po »

kube-system wrote: post #434
93po wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tired argument. Level 3 driving in extremely strict conditions in a very small area using technology and software that doesn't scale isn't "beating" Tesla.

Level 3 is the lowest level of self-driving. Level 2 and below are driver assistance features. Tesla makes very nice driver assistance features, but they have not released any features which operate the vehicle safely by itself under any circumstance. MB is beating Tesla in the self driving game because they've released a car that is >0% self driving. Tesla is beating everyone at the driver assistance game.

This is semantics. Firstly because this difference is largely because Tesla chooses to not deploy it as level 3 in some tiny highly-mapped market with sensors (LIDAR) and software that don't scale (MB's level 3 breaks at the first change in roads like construction). Secondly because Tesla is 90%+ of the way to building level 3 driving in 99% of places. MB is 99% of the way to level 3 driving in 0.1% of places and it would take them years and billions of dollars to get that to 5%. I'll let you do the math and see which is further ahead.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#492

Post by KaiserPro »

traceroute66 wrote: post #223
Symbiote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.) I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark. I never saw three-phase power in a house or flat in Britain, but part of the terrible plumbing is 7-9kW electric showers. (Cheaper to install than a shower connected to hot water, landlord doesn't care about the price to run it.)

> Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.) I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark. Now now kids, play nicely. ;-) I think the underlying question we should really be asking here is not willy-waving over whether you have a three-phase supply or not, but rather how large your main fuse is (there's a euphemism for you !). I'm not familiar with D…

> TL;DR you're still not going to have a supercharger at home any time soon.

true, but a three phase CCS will do 22kw. the EU has the advantage that 240v needs half the current to get the same power as the US

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#493

Post by Marsymars »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #344
logifail wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most EVs charge at home most of the time Umm, there's a significant chunk of the world's population who will likely never be able to charge at home, because they live in apartments and park on-street. "EV owners who live in apartment buildings and park on the street will rely heavily on public chargers—in 2021, 42 percent of European EV owners living in cities had no access to home charging points." https://www.mck…

On street parking is very much allowed only in some countries, the biggest one being the USA, but much of western Europe it is disallowed (or at least, you pay for it by the hour). Many countries require proof of parking spot before they will let you even buy a car. Even in that case, it isn't hard for cities to put out L2 charging pylons at each on-street parking space. They can just combine it with street light inf…

> Even in that case, it isn't hard for cities to put out L2 charging pylons at each on-street parking space.

How does this work for physical logistics? e.g. I’m a two-car household that can’t practically reduce to a single car, with a driveway that only fits one car. (That my partner uses.) I street park in front of my house, and there’s street/sidewalk/lawn. The only place I can think of to put a charging station is in my lawn with some kind of arch over the sidewalk to reach my car. Also becomes problematic as street parking spots aren’t reserved. (I could potentially remove a tree from my front yard and pave over it to provide another parking space, but that’s not a very appealing solution.)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#494

Post by gibolt »

jeromegv wrote: post #489
mattmaroon wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

There has been government intervention. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-open-us-charging-ne...

The government is actually requiring CCS1 (currently) to get that funding. This may change as more dominoes fall as others adopt NACS.

Considering that nearly all U.S. manufacturers are now switching off of CCS1, this requirement makes no sense since infrastructure is meant to last.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#495

Post by mustacheemperor »

javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection

That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0]

>the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's Superchargers.

>Companies that hope to tap $7.5 billion in federal funding for this network must also adopt the dominant U.S. standard for charging connectors, known as "Combined Charging System" or CCS; use standardized payment options; a single method of identification that works across all chargers; and work 97% of the time.

Interesting enough, Tesla is (currently) obliged to add CCS compatibility to their chargers for eligibility, but these manufacturers are adopting their connector regardless.

>The new rules would allow Tesla to keep its unique connectors, but it will have to add a permanently attached CCS connector or adapter that charges a CCS-compliant vehicle, similar to a gas pump that has a separate handle for gas versus diesel.

[0]https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#496

Post by gibolt »

perfectstorm wrote: post #471
mattmaroon wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

Volkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network. they uses CCS and VW is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. i think they can stand on their own. time will tell though.

They were forced to make EA as part of Dieselgate. If most vehicles is the U.S. are on NACS, they will be forced to switch by market forces alone.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#497

Post by speed_spread »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #461
speed_spread wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BES was possibly a more significant part of RIM's than the charger infrastructure is to Tesla. Opening the charger infrastructure is just them defining their moat, really. Tesla will still sell cars but more importantly they'll keep collecting usage data that they'll resell to the highest bidder.

When Tesla sells someone a car for $50k, what do you think is the value of the data on how often they charge it? $20? Surely it can never be a significant revenue stream.

It's not just charging data obviously, it's all the car usage data. Where you go, how fast, with who... And yes, after a few years, the value of that data is worth more than the original profit they made selling the car itself. Its also recurring revenue, they don't even need to sell you a new car to keep making money.

There's a reason the Ford CEO declared a few years back that Ford was to become "a data company". Tesla is only showing the way. https://threatpost.com/ford-eyes-use-of-customers-personal-d...

Margins on hardware are so slim, it doesn't take much surveillance to double or triple the profit a manufacturer makes over the lifespan of an object. You thought IoT was about customer convenience? It's not science fiction. Smart Televisions already report on what you're watching, in real-time. https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/insights/

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#498

Post by mustacheemperor »

mkozlows wrote: post #474
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

As far as I know, Tesla will still add CCS compatible adapters to the Supercharger network in the future, since it is a requirement for the EV network funding they're going after by opening up to additional manufacturers.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#500

Post by KaiserPro »

erinnh wrote: post #262
throw0101c wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology Connections did a deep dive on CCS and it seems like it's a more flexible connector with a truly open standard. He did a video on this Connextras channel about this news: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjny4u5THpU While he thinks the Tesla physical connector is probably better, the CCS communications standard is better (AIUI). So once Telsa adopts that, it will probably be a good system. Also: he's ta…

Wait. CCS1 cant handle three-phase power? I just read about it and no wonder its not that popular. You can charge 7.4kw maximum in the US at home with CCS1. In Europe you can charge up to 22kw without going DC.

I think in the EU its CCS2 including the tesla super charger. They have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System#/medi... the left hand plug.
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