FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail • Hacker News Board

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#491

Post by eternalban » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #259

eternalban wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand. Benefit to Caroline Ellison is self evident. That SFB is the subject of her singing is also obvious. Qs are: - was this too generous? - who else besides Caroline Ellison would benefit here now that she has her deal? (Related to first q ..)

> was this too generous? She's pleading to what, seven major felonies as I recall? And there is no agreement on a reduced sentence aside from "the prosecution will ask for lesser sentences" which doesn't mean the judge is going to agree. She didn't get some kind of a sweet deal, she got the "we have enough to put you in jail until you're elderly, but if you make it easy we'll ask the judge to reduce it so middle age"…

ianal. There are conflicting interpretations of the agreement. This is from coindesk:

"The agreement states that if Ellison fully cooperates with the SDNY's investigation, as well as any other law enforcement agency designated by the office, she won't be further prosecuted criminally except for possible criminal tax violations with regard to the wire and commodity fraud charges that resulted from commingling funds between FTX and Alameda accounts. The deal does not guarantee that other agencies will not pursue prosecution at a later date."

https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/22/caroline-elliso...

Different potential charges relating to taxes are on the table but that guilty plea to seven counts of felony carry no prison time. So it is "110 to 0 years" modulo potential tax related charges, if any.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#492

Post by trillic » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #441

trillic wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dude embezzled like 7B and you think he doesn't have 250M squirreled away in crypto he can't pledge to some psychopathic billionaire buddy of his?

It seems like it would be an exceptionally bad idea for him to use hidden funds to get someone to pay his bail - he's being watched.

It also seems like it would be an exceptionally bad idea for someone to lead off their congressional testimony with "I fucked up".

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#493

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

andirk wrote: post #459

dragonwriter wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties Approximately this, though only SBF and his parents are on the hook for the full amount, the other two for a lesser…

Sam probably has access to a ton of FTT. He can open a trading desk in his parent's basement and recover at least a few hundred USD. He's very bad at gambling, but if he can find a new shitcoin to arbitrage, he can leverage his FTT to new heights and be back at the top! It will be from prison, however.

He probably has access to the several hundred million dollars worth of crypto stolen from FTX wallets around the time of the collapse, but he also probably doesn’t want to show that he does.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#494

Post by vel0city » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

sethd wrote: post #485

vel0city wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's practically no basements in residences in lots of Texas. In Houston a lot of the city is literally only 10-15ft above sea level, the water line is often close to the surface. Coupled with lots of rain and flooding, it's not a good idea. Then in North Texas, expansive soils are then a challenge. There's lots of shifts from drought to wet seasons that'll quickly start crushing those walls. It's definitely possi…

I’ve seen some in older homes and have heard “there are no basements in Texas” when I lived there. Same thing in Oklahoma, even though a house I lived in as child had one and we definitely weren’t wealthy. :)

Basements or crawl spaces? Older homes were often pier and beam construction which would have a crawl space. But most houses aren't pier and beam these days they've been pretty much all slab style since at least the 50s.

There's tons of basements in Oklahoma, you're starting to get out of the expansive soil areas I was talking about at that point. You're then also needing to worry about the frost line so your foundations would need to be deeper anyways.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#495

Post by gnicholas » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #352

Consultant32452 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash bail means the accused pays the full bail amount and then gets it refunded after trial. A surety bond is basically a loan, through a bail bondsman. The bail bondsman has insurance in case you don't show up. A property bond is where the court gets a lien on your property. It sounds like this is what happened. https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm

If that's the case, I'm very curious now about how two Stanford professors have at least 250M of property under their name. Perhaps it has been acquired in the past 4 or so years? (Nothing against Stanford or professors, but academia pay peanuts and professors are usually very far from having a net worth of 9-10 figures, faaaaaaaar awaaaaaay)

Law professors make much better money than most academics, with starting salaries more than double what humanities professors make. These are also senior professors who have been at Stanford for a long time, making good money and presumably investing along the way. SBF's dad is a famous tax law professor (he 'wrote the book' on federal income taxation that's used at law schools all over the country), so he understands finance/investing better than most academics.

I would guess that their net worth was north of $10M just based on those earnings, subsequent investment, and their house (which is apparently worth $3M+).

Of course, SBF has had some incredible arbitrage wins over the years, and he presumably offered his parents the opportunity to run a million or two through his money making machine. If they were more conservative with their gains that he was, they could easily have $20 or $50 million. I agree it's unlikely that they have 10 figures, though.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#496

Post by throwthere » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

somesortofthing wrote: post #168

throwthere wrote: post #157

Armchair thoughts-- makes you wonder what the game is here-- the prosecutors want a high enough bail that SBF can make, but not so high that he wouldn't pay the bond. For reasons-- 1) It proves he has more funds. 99% odds he will declare bankruptcy once the civil judgements come, so this refutes SBF claims that he only has a few hundred dollars in a bank account somewhere. 2) Making him collect funds from more than o…

> A recognizance bond is a written commitment from the accused to appear in court when ordered. In return, Bankman-Fried’s camp would not be required to meet the full collateral requirements on the bail. Doesn't look like that's what's happening. It's not clear how much money's changing hands, but it's definitely nowhere near the full $250m.

CNBC says 8-10% is likely, with the real numbers known once the filings come out. And 8-10% of $250 million is... a lot more than SBF's claimed few hundred dollars.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#497

Post by patentatt » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

rubyfan wrote: post #409

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally when you post bail you have 2 options: 1. Pledge the full amount of the bail yourself. You get this back if the accused shows up in court, you lose it of they flee. 2. Pay some percentage (usually X%) to a bail bondsman. You never get that money back, and if the accused flees, the bail bondsman will try to get the money from whomever signed the bond (as the bail bondsman is on the hook). The bail bondsman ma…

I was thinking that he just generated a new type of coin that he said was worth $250M and posted that as collateral.

May as well, it worked the first time.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#498

Post by berkle4455 » Sat, Dec 24, 2022, 2:19 AM UTC

tofuahdude wrote: post #382

berkle4455 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's US-centric, especially if talking about amounts of money, it's million. Always.

No, it isn't. The entire ad-tech industry is built on CPM (latin mille for thousand).

M isn’t a suffix here. It’s part of the acronym.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#499

Post by sethd » Sat, Dec 24, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #494

sethd wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen some in older homes and have heard “there are no basements in Texas” when I lived there. Same thing in Oklahoma, even though a house I lived in as child had one and we definitely weren’t wealthy. :)

Basements or crawl spaces? Older homes were often pier and beam construction which would have a crawl space. But most houses aren't pier and beam these days they've been pretty much all slab style since at least the 50s. There's tons of basements in Oklahoma, you're starting to get out of the expansive soil areas I was talking about at that point. You're then also needing to worry about the frost line so your foundat…

Basements in both those states.

I’ve heard people in Oklahoma say that basements can’t be built because the soil has too much clay, yet I’ve seen them in older homes there.

I’m starting to think that “basements can’t be built in X state” is some kind of pervasive urban myth.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#500

Post by vel0city » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

sethd wrote: post #499

vel0city wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basements or crawl spaces? Older homes were often pier and beam construction which would have a crawl space. But most houses aren't pier and beam these days they've been pretty much all slab style since at least the 50s. There's tons of basements in Oklahoma, you're starting to get out of the expansive soil areas I was talking about at that point. You're then also needing to worry about the frost line so your foundat…

Basements in both those states. I’ve heard people in Oklahoma say that basements can’t be built because the soil has too much clay, yet I’ve seen them in older homes there. I’m starting to think that “basements can’t be built in X state” is some kind of pervasive urban myth.

I mean, don't get me wrong, you can build a basement anywhere. Its not like the ground is truly impermeable. Its really just a question of if its worth the maintenance or not depending on the terrain around. If you're going to have your sump pump constantly run because your basement is below the water line, you're going to have a bad time. If you've got expansive soils that'll constantly be changing the direction of load on your basement walls, you're going to have a bad time. Coupled with the fact you don't need to dig that deep to get deeper than the frost line, its usually just really not worth it. So its not that they can't be built, they just can't be built economically.

Really wealthy people in Texas might have a basement; its not impossible! Some really old homes before slab-style construction might have basements as well. Or they might be living in the high deserts out in West Texas. But like easily 99.9% of homes built in the majority of Texas do not have basements. If I were to ask everyone I know if they knew anyone who had a basement at any time in any home they ever lived in, the answer would probably be "no" almost every time. Finding a home built since the 1940's in this area that's less than $10M with a basement is practically finding a unicorn. Except its an expensive unicorn needing constant maintenance.