FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail • Hacker News Board

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#411

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:25 AM UTC

csense wrote: post #373

dragonwriter wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay so it's basically a bail bond, It is exactly a bond for bail, yes. > sign over the $2M house to get the bondsman to post $250M bond. No, there is no bondsman, the house is pledged directly to the court as security, his parents are additional surety for the $250M, and two other people are signing lesser bonds.

> his parents are additional surety for the $250M This is an odd phrase. So what happens if SBF disappears? Do the parents lose their $2M house? Lose their $2M house and become $248M in debt? Go to jail? What keeps the whole family from simply going on a sudden vacation to Dubai and letting the court take their house? Losing one's childhood home is sad, but stolen Bitcoins can still buy a very nice replacement.

His parents are reported to have a $16M Bahamas property in their names, so they can just go to the other houses they bought with funds from their college professor salaries.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#412

Post by outside1234 » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:37 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #326

jjtheblunt wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His parents' home isn't worth anything like that. Does that mean only a fraction of the bond value needs to be the security? If so, is that not bullshit?

> His parents' home isn't worth anything like that. Correct. > Does that mean only a fraction of the bond value needs to be the security? Correct. > If so, is that not bullshit? It seems to mean “lots of people’s mental model of what ‘$X bail’ means is wrong.” But that ignorance doesn’t make the actual system bullshit.

[flagged]

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#413

Post by trillic » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:38 AM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #398

throwawaylinux wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're claiming the court accepted the collateral from the parents and these two other allegedly wealthy "individuals" without doing anything to verify it? If that is what happened then you are right about it being funny money, and hilarious that they duped the court like they did their investors.

>You're claiming the court accepted the collateral [...] without doing anything to verify it? Yes, I think that's exactly what happened.

The simplest explanation is usually true. A billionaire enabler of Sam's was willing to put up $250M in collateral because Sam spilling on him would cost him far more that $250M. I think the claim he was acting alone solely on his own behalf is absolute garbage. He rose too high, and too rapidly to have been solely of his own creation. Someone bigger than him was absolutely involved.

I think we need to look further into FTX's Tokenized Stock Offerings, as that's what the SEC has been honing in upon, among other things.

https://news.bitcoin.com/report-suggests-ftxs-tokenized-stoc...

FTX was selling stock, claiming it to be backed 1:1, which was likely being used as collateral for further speculation, or as locates for short sales, despite never actually holding the shares they claimed to.

Crypto is unregulated and is a whole thing, but claiming to have stocks you don't have is a way to really piss off the ultra-rich.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#414

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:38 AM UTC

hanoz wrote: post #85

bandyaboot wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why that would matter. I would think all that would matter is having people willing to be on the hook if he skips town.

It would matter if they were willing to lose the money to avoid a trial, for starters.

They won't lose the money if SBF dies before court. Maybe SBF would be safer in MCC?

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/nym

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#415

Post by andirk » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:41 AM UTC

I wonder if he will flee.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#416

Post by itake » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:45 AM UTC

ravi-delia wrote: post #228

itake wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of news articles in Seattle about people that were released from jail by a judge with no bail while they wait for trail and then go on to commit even more serious crimes (arson, rape and murder) in the following days. I think society struggles with knowing who is a threat and who isn't. The consequences of being wrong is rape, death, and arson. > released without bail and was arrested 10 hours later for a…

That's because it makes the headlines- working out the real statistics wouldn't even be that hard and would totally remove the need for such sensationalist nonsense, but of course that doesn't pay the bills.

Do you have any articles where people were not released from jail and they went on to kill an innocent victim while awaiting trial?

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#417

Post by trillic » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:48 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #262

dragonwriter wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a few days ago he declared he had less than 100k on his bank account and now he forks out 250m? No, he (or one or more other people on his behalf) secured a $250m bond. Bail bonds generally cost significantly less than the amount of bail; in many states with a maximum or exact amount set by law. In New York, the maximum is 10% up to $3000, 8% for $3000-$10000, 6% for the amount over $10000. At $250M bail, the…

But when you pay a bail bond to a bondsman, you never get that 10% back . You are paying for the service of NOT having to put up the full amount, as the bail bondsman is the one who is ultimately on the hook. I highly doubt anyone paid $25 million that they aren't expecting to get back.

This dude embezzled like 7B and you think he doesn't have 250M squirreled away in crypto he can't pledge to some psychopathic billionaire buddy of his?

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#418

Post by russdill » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:49 AM UTC

googlryas wrote: post #151

pavlov wrote: post #115

David Gerard has the best summary: ‘He was released on bail for a $250 million bond — “the largest ever pretrial bond,” apparently — secured only on his parents’ home in Palo Alto, where he will be living. ’SBF will surrender his passport and remain in home confinement with electronic monitoring — he’ll wear a bracelet. He will also be required to undergo regular mental health evaluation and treatment. No financial t…

Should be denied access to the internet too, like most internet related criminals are on bond conditions.

I realize that it's easy to reach the forgone conclusion that yes, he's guilty and a criminal. You'd have to really tie yourself into knots to find out how he could be innocent. But our legal system still treats people not yet convicted as....not yet convicted.

Speaking more generically, people released on bond need to be able to have the resources necessary to form a proper defense, and also to try and avoid their entire life being destroyed by an arrest that may or may not lead to a conviction.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#419

Post by zamalek » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:51 AM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #352

Consultant32452 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash bail means the accused pays the full bail amount and then gets it refunded after trial. A surety bond is basically a loan, through a bail bondsman. The bail bondsman has insurance in case you don't show up. A property bond is where the court gets a lien on your property. It sounds like this is what happened. https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm

If that's the case, I'm very curious now about how two Stanford professors have at least 250M of property under their name. Perhaps it has been acquired in the past 4 or so years? (Nothing against Stanford or professors, but academia pay peanuts and professors are usually very far from having a net worth of 9-10 figures, faaaaaaaar awaaaaaay)

Their son had this crypto exchange that was flinging money in every-which-direction.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#420

Post by itake » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 2:51 AM UTC

ravi-delia wrote: post #249

jjcon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh… what? So what level of rape/murder is appropriate/acceptable for criminals out on bail to commit, statistically speaking of course? I’m pretty sure the rest of us think it should be 0… but maybe that is just me. 3 notable examples in the last 6 months in one area… not zero… not anywhere close.

Obviously higher than 0, all else being equal. I have priorities other than keeping people locked up on the off chance that a tiny fraction of them might commit a crime- given that most people would at least claim to support fair trials with evidence and such, I suspect that 0 is actually a pretty rare response. edit: I think your edit made things a little clearer. I doubt we agree, but we've talked past each other h…

Bail is a filter. People that are functioning in our society and have something to lose will have earned the resources (either financial or social capital) to post bail.

People that are not functioning on any level (just because they're low-income doesn't mean they don't have friends or family to help) should be treated with caution, because they have nothing to lose.

They already are facing jail, so why should they try to function?