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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#491

Post by tomp »

atweiden wrote: post #450
tomp wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can buy organic, grass-fed, no-GMO, sustainably pasture-raised beef. Can I buy a higher-quality vurger? AFAIK not (right now).

> I can buy organic, grass-fed, no-GMO, sustainably pasture-raised beef. No, actually you probably can't [1]: > Is there such a thing as a climatically-guilt-free steak? Are grazing livestock climate villains or climate saviours? A new report by an international research collaboration led by the Food Climate Research Network (FCRN), part of the Oxford Martin Programme on the Future of Food, provides an authoritative…

Any food transported to your plate by a car has an environmental cost. As does modern life in general. I believe we will eventually solve the problem (via carbon-capture & sustainable energy production) but I see that mostly orthogonal to eating meat.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#492

Post by watwut »

ben_w wrote: post #166
orange_tee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the questions are related. I am aware that some people can make it work, but if you remove cheap meat, who do you affect? Poor people. My question is, can poor people also eat a plant based diet with minimal malnutrition risk? All the questions are in reference to that. All I see about plant based diets say the same shit without answering the though questions. They always say, "it's possible to be a health vegan…

It’s very easy to eat healthily and cheaply on a vegetarian or vegan diet. In the UK I used Quorn or lentils as a major protein in a lot of my cooking, now I’m in Berlin I’m alternating between soy chunks, seitan (both of which I have to flavour myself), lentils, tofu, four types of preprepared tinned beans, soy milk, and cheese. Most of these options have cheap subtypes. The most expensive part of my cooking is the…

So, now meet causes obesity? That is really a new theory.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#493

Post by tomp »

atweiden wrote: post #451
tomp wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully support this. I think it would result in a lot of good innovation - e.g. ways to raise meat while reducing carbon (including methane) emissions. But ONLY if externalities are also fully priced & included for all other products - cars, plastic crap shipped from China, aircon, ... otherwise that kind of legislation is simply discrimination against meat-lovers.

> But ONLY if externalities are also fully priced & included for all other products - cars, plastic crap shipped from China, aircon, ... otherwise that kind of legislation is simply discrimination against meat-lovers. Meat has a victim [1]. Respectably, how would you price in the cost of death? [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko

Non-eating meat would result in the extinction of several species. Interesting exploration of this moral issue is here:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12/11/acc-is-eating-meat-a-n...

Personally, I don’t consider the death of (most) animals any different to the death of plants. Only killing conscious entities (be they meat-based or potentially digital in the future) is immoral.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#494

Post by watwut »

jamil7 wrote: post #478
orange_tee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the questions are related. I am aware that some people can make it work, but if you remove cheap meat, who do you affect? Poor people. My question is, can poor people also eat a plant based diet with minimal malnutrition risk? All the questions are in reference to that. All I see about plant based diets say the same shit without answering the though questions. They always say, "it's possible to be a health vegan…

The idea that meat needs to eaten in the quantity and frequency that it’s currently eaten in the west to maintain a healthy diet is a recent idea. For my grandparents growing up most meat, especially things like chicken was a luxury reserved for special occasions. It’s also always interesting to me that when this argument comes up people are suddenly very interested in standing up for “the poor”, there are a whole ho…

Historical diets were nothing like modern vegetarianism. They also were not super heathy, oftentimes missing nutricients and causing diseases from the lack of them.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#495

Post by bearbawl »

websites222 wrote: post #219
bearbawl wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the amount of words I’m sure I’ve lost indeed. In « many many » languages and countries, everywhere around the world, and particularly in our very small new extremism world. I have one question: why do people trying to eat only vegetables (is « vegetables » still ok?) insist so much to call that « plant-based » food « meat »?

> I have one question: why do people trying to eat only vegetables (is « vegetables » still ok?) insist so much to call that « plant-based » food « meat »? That don’t. They just read what’s on the label and call it that. It’s preservationists who see a war here: everyone else has moved on.

So you don’t even see the issue?

If you’re into vegetables, as-in you’re against meat, you just eat vegetables and you don’t eat meat anymore. You don’t need that to be called « plant-based meat ».

Only the people who are actually so nostalgic of the good meat they had want something called « plant-based meat ».

Who are the « preservationists » there?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#496

Post by SebastianKra »

henrikschroder wrote: post #288
tashoecraft wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. So many non vegetarian/vegan people say stuff like this and it’s just wrong. Or they’ll say “why have a fake burger, can’t you just enjoy vegetarian food, why does it have to be a burger? If you want burger just eat one and stop trying to copy meat, innovate on your own”. It’s just people completely missing the point. If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of produ…

> Or they’ll say “why have a fake burger, can’t you just enjoy vegetarian food, why does it have to be a burger? If you want burger just eat one and stop trying to copy meat, innovate on your own”. It's hilarious, because there's one comment just like that below yours now. > The high high majority of meat consumption is not high quality product, but the absolutely lowest quality possible. Yes, this. A lot of people,…

I agree with you generally, but not with your comparison between bolognese and marinara.

One has the protein I need and one doesn't.

I did, however, discover falafel balls recently, and they're definitely something that I can imagine eating regularily.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#497

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

f430 wrote: post #293
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would work if you completely disregard people's enjoyment and overall experience of eating the foods. (And only think of nutritional composition.)

A lot of people's preference of food comes from its culture that adapted to its immediate natural environment. For America, the fast food industry was really born out of corporate interests and it is unnatural. It's not that eating meat is wrong but the fast food industry that is responsible for our over consumption and maltreatment of bovine stock to meet the demands. In countries like Japan, France, Vietnam, fast f…

> as much as locals prefer their traditional diet

Which is still meat. It might be prepared differently but it's still meat. Which tells you exactly that - meat consumption is not only about forced customs, it's about people legitimately enjoying eating eat. I know a lot of people that do this too, and it's not about being uneducated either.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#498

Post by imhoguy »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #389
m463 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

This seems to suggest that you think our meat comes from animals who kinda exist and compete mutually with crops when actually we feed most of our crops to animals. If there was an ecological disaster that killed crop production, we wouldn't waste it by feeding it to animals for a grossly inefficient luxury item. It's like when people try to make a "pro-meat" claim by pointing out how much water it takes to grow a po…

Most animals can feed on wild grasses which we can't digest. They can serve us with a lot of resources and stay alive too (milk, wool, eggs). But if the event is so severe that even grass is gone, then rats are left and canibalism.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#499

Post by watwut »

tashoecraft wrote: post #203
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

Agreed. So many non vegetarian/vegan people say stuff like this and it’s just wrong. Or they’ll say “why have a fake burger, can’t you just enjoy vegetarian food, why does it have to be a burger? If you want burger just eat one and stop trying to copy meat, innovate on your own”. It’s just people completely missing the point. If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of produ…

> If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of product.

But you are not getting them close enough for that. They taste different. They also have different nutritional composition, so if you will just replace meat by then brainlessly you are setting yourself up to failure.

Vegetarians who did not eate meat for years claim the taste is similar, but nobody else. And these could be good, if someone did not raised expectations up to "like meet" to sell it and then failed to execute.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#500

Post by henrikschroder »

runarberg wrote: post #446
henrikschroder wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AFAIK I don't think your knowledge on this subject goes very far, because you seem to have very weird views of how and why meat is best prepared. > With plant based food you have all these options and more. A perfectly seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin is such a great experience that my mouth starts watering just thinking about it. It is also currently completely impossible to recreate this expe…

This is such a silly subject, I wonder what I said in the above comment that started this. I can just as easily say that it is completely impossible to recreate the experience of chocolate brownie with meat. But that is not the point. I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it. I on the other hand haven’t. The mere thought of eating beef gives b…

> I wonder what I said in the above comment that started this.

You don't like meat, eating meat disgusts you, you don't understand how people can like meat, and yet you butted into this discussion with your completely unfounded opinion on whether or not other people actually like meat or not.

You also seem to think that people liking cooked meat somehow means they actually don't like meat, as if liking raw meat is the only thing that counts, for some weird made-up reason?

Are you so bad at understanding other people that you can't fathom that they actually, genuinely, like things you don't like?

...and to tie this back to the article we're discussing: If you don't eat meat or don't like meat, then Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger are not products for you! You are not the target group! And that also means that the marketing of those products won't be appealing to you. That's fine! They're not trying to get you as a customer anyway! They're trying to get me as a customer!

> I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it.

Nope, it's just fantastic, no taste acquiring needed.

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