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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#491

Post by wvenable »

systemvoltage wrote: post #404
cnst wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually happy Apple didn't make a small concession. I can't quite have the resources to sue Apple by myself as a small user being prevented from using the device I have paid for the way I see fit. I'm very glad that EPIC is doing it on my behalf. I'm also kind of glad that Apple didn't simply cut a backroom deal with EPIC, but is instead going the full-monty on this.

I share a different view on this. I want Apple to have as much control over as they can to keep my device safe. Obviously, this is an unpopular opinion on HN - part of me wants it super hackable and open source (my hacker self), but my average joe self wants is as tied down, closed doors as possible to avoid sniffing off my personal data, usage patterns, cookies, and a whole bunch of "soft metrics" about my device to…

> Apple acts on my behalf as a security officer - they have no interest in selling me ads - they already got their revenue hunger satiated from the high price of my device and all the internal Apple services I pay for (Apple music, TV, icloud, etc).

They remove apps that compete with their own apps even if those apps existed before hand. They disallow cloud gaming because it they can't collect fees from it or control it. They've already done a long list of "abuses" that have nothing to do with your device security (or battery life, etc).

Honestly I do think Apple has done a great job of device security and I think they could do a lot more with their OS. I don't see why I need an app store to prevent apps from sniffing off my personal data, usage patterns, cookies, etc -- the OS could protect those from me if that's what Apple wants to do.

> Apple should be charging way more for exclusive access to their App store. It's their turf.

I think something is likely anti-competitive when there is absolutely no market pressure on pricing.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#492

Post by ahnick »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #132
ahnick wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market share in the US mobile OS market. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta...

Was that supposed to show Apple was a monopoly? Because that's not what it shows.

It shows they have a majority share of the mobile OS market in the US; therefore, they can basically act like they have a monopoly in the US. Everyone else is a distant second, so they can monopolize or attempt to monopolize the mobile app market.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#494

Post by m4rtink »

neurostimulant wrote: post #451
sillysaurusx wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide any info showing that Apple was definitely going to block all unreal engine powered iOS apps from the App Store? Ideally definitive evidence.

Well, how could Epic continue developing unreal engine for iOS without a developer account?

>Well, how could Epic continue developing unreal engine for iOS without a developer account? I thinl this nicely sumariges whats wrong - why the hell should one need an account somewhere to develop software for an OS!

Thats a totally arbitrary limitation and as nicely illustrated by Apple - very very dangerous.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#495

Post by searchableguy »

tomc1985 wrote: post #373
lr4444lr wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I think the downvoting provides all of the corrective feedback your target audience needs to learn this.

I'm not so sure about that. Downvotes are as much an indicator of outspokenness as they are that one's post is repugnant. Unfortunately lots of people love to downvote posts they do not agree with, or don't support their chosen side

I think the problem with downvotes is that they tend to make the comment invisible. Initial downvotes don't reflect the community unless it's a general consensus (political flame bait).

They get buried and then no one ever sees them to upvote. The visibility in the absence of raw numbers works as a reference and sometimes it is misleading.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#496

Post by systemvoltage »

croes wrote: post #452
systemvoltage wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share a different view on this. I want Apple to have as much control over as they can to keep my device safe. Obviously, this is an unpopular opinion on HN - part of me wants it super hackable and open source (my hacker self), but my average joe self wants is as tied down, closed doors as possible to avoid sniffing off my personal data, usage patterns, cookies, and a whole bunch of "soft metrics" about my device to…

You are relying on a benevolent dictator. If Apple decided to sell you out you are fucked. BTW if you are such a security fan would it be good if Apple watches which websites you visit in your browser? Wouldn't it be even better if only websites are allowed which are hosted on Apple servers on Apples own internet?

Definitely - it is better than keeping tabs on thousands of small predators (apps) that want to milk your data at every instant possible.

Apple's entire business model for decades is about selling hardware and services, not advertisement. And they're doubling down on it.

The alternatives are "open source" masquerators like Ubuntu who had a boatload of Amazon spyware in it.

This is an age old argument about Apple. Last couple of months for Apple has been rough in terms of PR, but I can point you to many many threads about how Apple cares about their users and despite of the "dictator" status, they're a safe bet relative to what other options we have available. It is fashionable during this time to hate on Apple. See @dang's warning at the top of the thread - I've kind of lost hope in HN since it has become too emotional and less objective day by day.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#497

Post by m4rtink »

SXX wrote: post #303
m3kw9 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open and closed is relative, as nothing is completely open unless it’s open source. Epic game store isn’t completely open. He’s just defining his version open to suit his bottom line.

That's true, but Epic is more of a friend to open source than Apple: they donated money to both Blender and Godot Engine. Also Epic benefit from game development being more open in general even if their own engine is not open source. If they gonna win in battle with Apple and will be allowed to have their own store then it's also make it possible to setup more of alternative stores for e.g open source software withou…

That's true, but still a far cry from Valve which has native Linux support for Steam and is actively involved in many open source projects.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#498

Post by btown »

cepp wrote: post #457
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

> In the short term, Epic loses money by not having Fortnite on Apple devices. Will they though? For all the players who already had the app they still have access to Epic's payment system meaning they're making 20% more on those transactions. I'm not sure that new user purchases will be > 20% they make in the short term from those existing users.

An important part of this is that as far as I can tell, most AAA mobile games now ship all but the most fundamental "code updates" as updates to interpreted scripts/data files over the Internet, bypassing the App Store update mechanism. (Where does data end and code begin? That's a philosophical argument that historically Apple could look the other way on for high-performing mobile games with weekly or even more frequent event releases.)

Part of the calculus must have been that Fortnite was stable enough, especially from a low-level and netcode perspective, that it could do without needing App Store updates to remain cross-play compatible in the medium-term.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#499

Post by jpollock »

cepp wrote: post #457
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

> In the short term, Epic loses money by not having Fortnite on Apple devices. Will they though? For all the players who already had the app they still have access to Epic's payment system meaning they're making 20% more on those transactions. I'm not sure that new user purchases will be > 20% they make in the short term from those existing users.

~25% (straight line) of their customer base churns to a new iPhone every year [1].

Those customers will no longer be able to download Fortnite.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/08/four-year-smartphone-upgrades...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#500

Post by an_opabinia »

pedroma wrote: post #474
cepp wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the short term, Epic loses money by not having Fortnite on Apple devices. Will they though? For all the players who already had the app they still have access to Epic's payment system meaning they're making 20% more on those transactions. I'm not sure that new user purchases will be > 20% they make in the short term from those existing users.

What are they going to buy? All the new content is on the other platforms.

So the court case will wind up being a moot point.

This is a technology forum, so speaking of technology... maybe there will just be some radical streaming or delivery innovation, compatible with Mobile Safari today, that could really change the state of at least games and movies on iOS. I wonder why that hasn't happened sooner.

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