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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#491

Post by grecy »

agakshat wrote: post #477
maxharris wrote: post #345

If you actually believe that Tesla will fail to deliver full self-driving in the coming years, I have two questions. 1. have you watched this entire technical presentation made by Andrej Karpathy, Senior Director of AI at Tesla? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7BXih7zx8 2. if you understand what you've seen in that video, why do you think Tesla will fail?

Whether or not a camera-based solution will work reliably in the future is not the issue at hand here. The issue is the vast, vast gap between the current capability of Autopilot vs. what it is marketed as, and how this false advertising can literally kill the average consumer.

> Whether or not a camera-based solution will work reliably in the future is not the issue at hand here.

Actually, it is precisely the issue at hand:

From the ruling:

> The Munich court agreed with the industry body’s assessment and banned Tesla Germany from including “full potential for autonomous driving”.... in its German advertising materials.

So Tesla are not allowed to advertise that it has the potential to do it in the future.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#492

Post by arrosenberg »

chrisseaton wrote: post #420
arrosenberg wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment seems to pretty much ignore the lingua franca of American drivers. Transposing terminology only works to the extent that the public actually understands how an airplane autopilot functions, which they don't. Plenty of people refer to their front seat passenger as a co-pilot or navigator, but I've never heard anyone call their passenger "co-driver".

> Plenty of people refer to their front seat passenger as a co-pilot or navigator Can you use that in a sentence? Like 'will you be my co-pilot while I drive to the store?' I don't see it to be honest.

"I don't know exactly where the turn is, I need you to co-pilot."

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#493

Post by readams »

dlp211 wrote: post #375
jdminhbg wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t claim to have it. I’m just pointing out that the claim as written is true.

It's may or may not be, and most likely not. Humans are more than just software, they are also hardware. And no, the consumer grade cameras included in Tesla vehicles are not replicas for eyeballs.

A human could likely drive just fine using only those cameras though.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#494

Post by square_usual »

yumraj wrote: post #343
jedberg wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW your friend must have a very heavy foot. My brother-in-law has a Tesla and goes from SJ to LA a few times a year. They make one stop in the middle to supercharge, and use the time to go to the bathroom and have lunch. The car is usually charged before they are done eating. When we caravan, the Tesla is never holding us up.

I really cannot comment on that. My friend I believe has the regular ~250 mile, or so, range Model X, so perhaps your brother-in-law has a longer range, but that still won't explain 3 times vs 1. So, don't know.. Edit: Now self-doubt is creeping in and I wonder if they had gone to Palm Springs and not just LA. The conversation was over a year ago.. Will that result in 3 charges each way? I've never driven to Palm Spr…

If it's bothering you that much, might as well ask your friend again.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#496

Post by alasdair_ »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #21
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately…

> It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman

Musk may be many, many things - perhaps even a conman - but he is in no way an “idiot” in any sane definition of that word.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#497

Post by dragontamer »

valine wrote: post #474
dragontamer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's not only calling their stuff "autopilot", but also "full self driving", which is probably the wrong way to describe their current implementation. Its a bit annoying to see people so fixated on the word "autopilot" when its clear that "full self driving" is complete and utter vaporware, a $5000 lie sold by the company.

The reason many people buy the full self driving package is so they can experience the latest state of the art autonomous driving software as Tesla develops it, and Tesla continues to deliver on that promise. Smart summon and stopping for traffic control were both added recently as software updates. Even more recently they’ve improved the lane keeping performance on curvy roads, which is something nobody really menti…

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280

>>> (Question from Twitter): Update on the coast to coast autopilot demo?

>> Elon: Still on for end of year. Just software limited. Any Tesla car with HW2 (all cars built since Oct last year) will be able to do this.

May, 2017. Elon bragging that "coast-to-coast" autonomous driving will be available by end of 2017. Straight up vaporware, a lie, no where close to done. We still have "Full Self Driving" cars crashing into the sides of trucks in 2020.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#498

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

FireBeyond wrote: post #421
Animats wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk said this month the electric car manufacturer was close to making its cars capable of automated driving without any need for driver input, so-called Level 5 autonomy. Yeah, right. Tesla has only Level 2 self-driving. They've never demonstrated Level 3 outside a video of a demo in Palo Alto. They wouldn't even let the press take a ride. Google/Waymo has hundreds of self-driving vehicl…

Exactly. He said this in 2014. 2016. 2018. Even at the end of 2019: > "You'll be able to FSD, coast to coast, by the end of this year". Meanwhile Teslas are still having a multitude of autopilot accidents that, had a human been paying attention (their fault, I understand), would not have happened - plowing at speed into fire engines with emergency lighting on, plowing into overturned semi trailers blocking multiple f…

"multitude", as in single-digit number of total accidents? Doesn't seem that high actually...

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#499

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

saddlerustle wrote: post #406
tcoff91 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait... you can seriously get a fully autonomous taxi in Phoenix right now with no safety driver? That is wild! has anyone documented this on video?

technically , but only a handful (<5) of vehicles are run without a safety driver, each has a dedicated remote operator and a follower vehicle, and the area covered is much smaller than their regular operation (a small area in the suburbs).

Is there any way to find out how much the remote operator is actively involved in the driving? Like for example how often do they generally intervene?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#500

Post by alasdair_ »

birdyrooster wrote: post #228
Shivetya wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought one in spite of Musk, simply put the technology of the car and that it brought back memories as a kid of all the cool concept cars that never got built sold me. That is performs so well it just a bonus. I feel like I am driving the future day in and day out. However I think that only does Musk misrepresent what the technology is capable of and the timeline I think that many quality of life features are missi…

People using their childhood dreams as an excuse to be functional sociopaths doesn't cut it. https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-... https://www.elonmusk.today

Useful advice for every expert, author, athlete, celebrity: almost all of their advice outside their area of specialization can be ignored().

() Feynman excepted.

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