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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#341

Post by ummonk »

Silhouette wrote: post #230
gibolt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it gets there, regulatory approval will absolutely be a bottleneck to deployment. They don't say it is a current blocker. And it won't come close to Theranos. Tesla makes real products that are class-leading. Even if Tesla can't reach level 5, it will be damn close and make driving 10-100x safer than just a human.

And it won't come close to Theranos. Tesla makes real products that are class-leading. Class-leading in what sense(s)? Even if Tesla can't reach level 5, it will be damn close But that's the problem with self-driving cars. Damn close isn't good enough. A miss is as good as a mile. The problem with the self-driving/automation scale is that anything around levels 2-4 probably shouldn't be allowed on public roads, at le…

Level 5 isn't the only safe level. Level 4 is safe too - e.g. a car that is fully capable of driving itself without human monitoring in slow stop and go traffic on a highway.

Levels 2 and 3 are the danger zone (and it worries me that car systems have gone ahead from level 1 to level 2, as having the human steer ensures driver attentiveness which is harder to maintain when the car does lane centering for you).

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#342

Post by Piskvorrr »

gibolt wrote: post #94
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but to even mention it now is disingenuous because they’re not even close to having a solution that their own engineering department would be willing to ship. You and I have no idea whether it’s possible to get close to level 5 with their currently shipping hardware. Neither do they. And this stuff about being 10-100x safer than a human is pure fantasy right now. The industry is incredibly far away from that an…

10x is within striking distance. Search for Autopilot reporting for the evidence. While it is biased towards highway miles, all the safety features augment the human driver. This will only get better with time. Shipping is different from functional. You don't know what their engineering department thinks. Unless you are an insider, it is hard to guess the timeline, trajectory, or confidence levels.

Yet you are confident of that "10x" statistic. Therefore: are you a) leaking inside data, or b) pulling numbers out of thin air?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#343

Post by yumraj »

jedberg wrote: post #259
yumraj wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was all for it and in fact had even reserved a Model 3 when it was announced, but later cancelled after Tesla/Musk engaged in their pricing shenanigans. And, then I had a conversation with a friend who has a Model X and driven from SJ to LA, and he mentioned that it needed 3 charges each way. Each Way ... Yes, it can be argued that how often do people drive from SJ to LA, but still... On top of that Musk acting lik…

FWIW your friend must have a very heavy foot. My brother-in-law has a Tesla and goes from SJ to LA a few times a year. They make one stop in the middle to supercharge, and use the time to go to the bathroom and have lunch. The car is usually charged before they are done eating. When we caravan, the Tesla is never holding us up.

I really cannot comment on that. My friend I believe has the regular ~250 mile, or so, range Model X, so perhaps your brother-in-law has a longer range, but that still won't explain 3 times vs 1. So, don't know..

Edit: Now self-doubt is creeping in and I wonder if they had gone to Palm Springs and not just LA. The conversation was over a year ago.. Will that result in 3 charges each way? I've never driven to Palm Springs, so not sure if there is another mountain pass in that direction or not.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#344

Post by Piskvorrr »

jedberg wrote: post #264
jowday wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When it gets there, regulatory approval will absolutely be a bottleneck to deployment. They don't say it is a current blocker. Elon regularly states that the chief blocker for Tesla is regulatory approval. Meanwhile Teslas still drive straight into overturned trucks.

> Meanwhile Teslas still drive straight into overturned trucks. To be fair, so do people.

And people driving into things is considered to be a problem, not an insignificant quirk that's almost unworthy of mention.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#345

Post by maxharris »

If you actually believe that Tesla will fail to deliver full self-driving in the coming years, I have two questions.

1. have you watched this entire technical presentation made by Andrej Karpathy, Senior Director of AI at Tesla? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7BXih7zx8

2. if you understand what you've seen in that video, why do you think Tesla will fail?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#346

Post by mleland »

mindfulplay wrote: post #339

Great. I hope they bring charges against Tesla for causing deaths that were completely avoidable. In fact we keep talking about AI ethics and so on. But we seem to have missed this very basic key ethical point: when Silicon Valley VC funded madness via AI/ML crap is pushed at breakneck speeds via these metal torpedoes, who is taking accountability? It's really amazing that Elon is worried about AI overlords when a 's…

Out of curiosity, what part of the driving AI of tesla would you say is currently not lining up with ethical standards?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#347

Post by chrisseaton »

_lmm8 wrote: post #295
DenisM wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know what the population thinks? Have there been an polls done?

Because the original parent comment is using an analogy to aviation terms, and depending on a more than cursory understanding of the limits of an aircraft autopilot. I am willing to make a monetary bet most members of the population do not understand the precise limitations of an aircraft autopilot, though I admit I have not conducted a poll to verify this. I also think Tesla likely named it this to differentiate it…

I think Tesla probably called it 'autopilot' specifically to clarify the limitations - it just sets heading, speed, etc.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#348

Post by amznthrwaway »

PCChris wrote: post #315
stetrain wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think the name "Autopilot" is the least troublesome part of the marketing. Other car makers call their systems CoPilot, ProPilot, SuperCruise, whatever and I think the name matters less than the communication and details of using the system. The main Autopilot marketing page shows a video of a Tesla driving itself, says the Driver is there for legal purposes only, and provides no other disclaimers about th…

They do say on the same page you linked that "Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

They've also been promising full autonomy for five years straight. The wording of "Current autopilot features" is intended to help deceive the public into thinking that full autonomy is coming next year.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#349

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

bdamm wrote: post #299
Aunche wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you driven a modern ICE? I rented a new Honda Accord this weekend. Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way, and it's roughly half the price. This isn't to say Teslas aren't impressive, but I do think they're overhyped.

Have you driven a Model 3? It's like night and day. Everything that burns gasoline feels like a dinosaur to me now after driving a Model 3. I can't stand renting cars, they are all complete junk compared to my Model 3 at home. I said this to a Hertz in Denver, they gave me their best Jaguar. It stinks, it is slow, it is pathetic. It's basically game over for ICE, and they know it. They have 10-15 years maybe but at t…

Replying here because your other comment hit the depth limit.

For decades ICE cars have been designed to drop off the mounts and go under the cabin while absorbing energy in a frontal crass. There's not some dramatically higher risk of the engine crushing your legs vs a BEV.

There are many reasons to prefer the BEV, but please don't spread FUD.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#350

Post by themantra514 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

It's about stonk.

Elon became a master at low key commenting on features "soon to be released" and on the "verge of" but those comments are non binding. You know what those comments do? They become nudges for stonk buyers who want to get in on the deal early before the features are released & the stonk price goes higher. Yeah, Elon knows how to make potential investors go crazy with the "buy low and sell high" fomo; Just read his Twitter feed filled with carrots on the proverbial stick. Oh Elon, you cheeky, cheeky bastard :)

TTYl everybody, gotta go catch my robo taxi! opens Waymo on smartphone

PS: Never forget, Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning were the original Tesla visionaries, Elon pretty much just bought his way into the vision...and pushed out Martin Eberhard.

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