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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#471

Post by obmelvin »

Zanni wrote: post #455
obmelvin wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large touchscreen navigation that gets updated continuously Specifically with the model 3 I think the central touchscreen is awfully placed and dangerous as the driver

I've got a Model 3 and a Model S. It took me about a week to get used to the central placement of the sole Model 3 screen and lack of a dashboard, but now I prefer it. The dashboard is always in my eye line yet frustrating blocked by the steering wheel. The Model 3 screen is off to the side where I can ignore it (most of the time), yet the information I need is close at hand when I want it. My impression is that it w…

Hm, interesting, I appreciate your comment as someone who has regularly driven both. I've only driven the model 3 a bit, with much more time in the passenger seat and I feel like I have to look away from the road a lot.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#472

Post by lostsock »

_lmm8 wrote: post #295
DenisM wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know what the population thinks? Have there been an polls done?

Because the original parent comment is using an analogy to aviation terms, and depending on a more than cursory understanding of the limits of an aircraft autopilot. I am willing to make a monetary bet most members of the population do not understand the precise limitations of an aircraft autopilot, though I admit I have not conducted a poll to verify this. I also think Tesla likely named it this to differentiate it…

I bet if I asked 10 people what is more autonomous, an autopilot or a copilot 10 out of 10 of them would say a copilot.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#473

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #466
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3 Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313

>All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances Probably true. >Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. >Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. A CEO making optimistic projections. Where are these li…

These are all optimistic projections stated as fact. I think we simply disagree on whether to call that a lie.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#474

Post by valine »

dragontamer wrote: post #190
Robotbeat wrote: post #188

I think it’s poor for “autopilot.” That word has a long history. It really is the best existing word to use. But a fair ruling for “autonomous.” And I think the concerns HN people have with “autopilot” are in part due to the fact that the terms have not been properly contrasted by Tesla. Being more careful with “autonomous” and “self-driving” would help a lot with the confusion with the word “autopilot.”

Tesla's not only calling their stuff "autopilot", but also "full self driving", which is probably the wrong way to describe their current implementation. Its a bit annoying to see people so fixated on the word "autopilot" when its clear that "full self driving" is complete and utter vaporware, a $5000 lie sold by the company.

The reason many people buy the full self driving package is so they can experience the latest state of the art autonomous driving software as Tesla develops it, and Tesla continues to deliver on that promise. Smart summon and stopping for traffic control were both added recently as software updates. Even more recently they’ve improved the lane keeping performance on curvy roads, which is something nobody really mentions. Many of the problems people talk about like Tesla’s swerving out of the lane have been greatly improved in recent updates.

There’s also the auto lane changes on the highway, which is really quite impressive to watch. Your car will automatically pass slow cars, move out of the passing lane when traffic clears up, and change lanes to follow your gps navigation. Not sure how you can call that vaporware.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#475

Post by FeepingCreature »

mcnamaratw wrote: post #409
krick wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the bubble must collapse eventually, right? Enron was "the most innovative company" for 6 years in a row too.

It does. But there's not necessarily any safe way to profit on it. Shorting can force you out at the high. Puts expire.

I think there's a missing financial product here. Something like an anti-index, where you buy "everything except X". Or better phrased, a way to get your bank to model you a dynamic index, where you can manually specify what is in and what is out.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#476

Post by lolc »

atonalfreerider wrote: post #356
ummonk wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being ready to fly doesn't require keeping your hand and feet on the stick and paddles.

The FAA guideline is "ready to fly manually" -> key word "manual" from the Latin manus meaning "hand". Tesla is going a step further by requiring hands-on contact at all times, which makes this system a MORE restrictive autopilot. Contrary to what has been posted in other comments, pilots don't just get up and start walking around the aircraft. There must be one pilot always ready to take IMMEDIATE control of the air…

Being semantically right does not help against technically colliding. I can hook up an avian autopilot to a car to keep my bearing. While this is semantically a car with an autopilot, the contraption is useless on a road.

When I talk about autopilots, I'm talking about a system that allows me to disengage from steering. Literally by employing a self-steerer. The Tesla "Autopilot" does not permit this because I still have to closely monitor the trajectory at every moment. As such it does not fulfil the main expectation I have of an autopilot. What are your expectations of an autopilot?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#477

Post by agakshat »

maxharris wrote: post #345

If you actually believe that Tesla will fail to deliver full self-driving in the coming years, I have two questions. 1. have you watched this entire technical presentation made by Andrej Karpathy, Senior Director of AI at Tesla? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7BXih7zx8 2. if you understand what you've seen in that video, why do you think Tesla will fail?

Whether or not a camera-based solution will work reliably in the future is not the issue at hand here.

The issue is the vast, vast gap between the current capability of Autopilot vs. what it is marketed as, and how this false advertising can literally kill the average consumer.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#478

Post by anonymfus »

foepys wrote: post #298
lazyjones wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way Except noise, pollution, complexity/maintenance cost, OTA updates, large touchscreen navigation that gets updated continuously, having to visit gas stations etc. etc. ICE is just obsolete technology. Half the performance at 10 times the noise and infinitely more pollution.

Noise actually isn't a factor. After about 20mph tire noise drowns out engine noise. Excluding cars that are purposely build/modified to be annoyingly loud.

In modern cities 30 km/h (19 mph) is a recommended speed limit.

#TwentyIsPlenty

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#479

Post by dahfizz »

catalogia wrote: post #330
dahfizz wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> designing and fully understanding the physics and mechanics of the Roadster. I've never seen anyone claim Musk did that. What are you on about?

From the context of your comment, it seemed as though you meant to support the notion that Elon Musk was working as a scientist, not a businessman.

That's fair. I should have quoted the first two sentences of my parent explicitly:

> Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#480

Post by ghaff »

saddlerustle wrote: post #410
Animats wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk said this month the electric car manufacturer was close to making its cars capable of automated driving without any need for driver input, so-called Level 5 autonomy. Yeah, right. Tesla has only Level 2 self-driving. They've never demonstrated Level 3 outside a video of a demo in Palo Alto. They wouldn't even let the press take a ride. Google/Waymo has hundreds of self-driving vehicl…

Waymo is not currently offering any rides. Their service has been suspended for riders since March.

Given Alphabet/Google's record of shutting down moonshots--or really services more broadly--what are the odds that Waymo is going to be around in a few years, especially if there'a a serious ad-tech fallout?

ADDED: Google has been pretty clear that they're only interested in door-to-door self-driving and not in incremental driver assistance or freeway-only hands-off. If that goal turns out to be something for an indefinite future--as seems entirely possible--I'm not sure why Google (of all companies) would continue to invest for decades towards an uncertain eventual goal.

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