I have no side code projects to show you • Hacker News Board

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#491

Post by BenjiWiebe » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #331

sbov wrote: post #19

I like to have side projects, but I still don't like to share them. People love to find reasons to reject, and an 18, 11, or 7 year long side project (the age of all my side projects) isn't really a fair representation of how I code today. Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project…

Also, keep in mind that some people can't share side projects or even work on them because their employers lay claim to all code they create, even on their free time.

I'm curious, how can that be legally possible? That's like working in a restaurant and not being allowed to cook a meal for visitors at home!

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#492

Post by 2trill2spill » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #235

2trill2spill wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And how an I supposed to tell whether they're worth working for without seeing their work? Ask questions, and do you really expect a hiring manager to have work relevant to your interview to show? But you can ask about policy, culture, etc.

So ask candidates questions. You really expect candidates to have work relevant to your interview to show? But you can ask how they deal with problems, cultural preferences, etc.

> So ask candidates questions. You really expect candidates to have work relevant to your interview to show? But you can ask how they deal with problems, cultural preferences, etc.

First of all thanks for being so disingenuous with your responses. But a programmer is actually creating things ie, code and programs which can be shown. A manager is talking to people, going to meetings, emailing people, ie not much work to show, because their work boils down to talking to people. So basically different jobs have different job interview processes, you wouldn't hire a designer or architect without seeing their previous work.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#493

Post by foo101 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:07 PM UTC

pferde wrote: post #430

foo101 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! And similarly, software developers should keep abreast of latest technical advances. What makes software engineering different from surgery is that when a surgeon learns something new, he does not have a live patient at his home to practice the new thing he has learnt, but as software engineers, most of the times we can immediately fire up an editor and write a PoC or a toy project to practice the new thing we…

Yes, it is normal to tinker with new stuff to get acquainted with it. It is, however, not the same thing as publishing results of that tinkering on e.g. github, or blogging about it as if you want to break some posts-per-month record. I do not get this obsession with putting everything out there. I have a huge local directory with my old test programs, PoCs, started but abandoned ideas, etc. I regularly try new stuff…

> I do not get this obsession with putting everything out there.

It's not obsession. It's just a matter of convenience. git add; git commit; git push; and all my experimental code is safe on someone else's server that is managed much better than I can manage my set of USB drives and hard disks.

> The internet needs less stuff on it, not more.

I disagree!

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#494

Post by delphinius81 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:09 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #320

delphinius81 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of the people on HN that say they won't do a take-home assignment would actually do a 30-60 minute take-home assignment if it meant avoiding the "code some algorithm on a whiteboard while the interviewer glares at you" situation. Then on the on-site, you can focus on the design/behavioral type things appropriate to the role's level of seniority. Also, if you give the same assignment to multiple candidate…

> I think many of the people on HN that say they won't do a take-home assignment would actually do a 30-60 minute take-home assignment if it meant avoiding the "code some algorithm on a whiteboard while the interviewer glares at you" situation. Except it never means this. It's always "and" and not "instead of". Many companies do these irritating programming challenges now, and then when you pass them, will still brin…

I needed to emphasize the if in that statement. :) The typical saltiness regarding interviewing on HN is warranted since it's usually an "and" thing.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#495

Post by nunez » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:18 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #352

Too wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference is that many "programmers" actually don't do any programming at work. Their hands on experience is a 5 week java course in uni 10 years ago and after thay they have been stuck in meetings or writing brain numbing CRUD in a proprietary domain specific scripting language at $bigco ever since. The only way for many to get actual hands on is to do side projects. Hair dressers don't have this problem, they…

There are a lot of more senior doctors in admin or specialty positions who aren't making rounds or doing surgery anymore, however.

yeah but they did a lot of medical work before getting there though

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#496

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:25 PM UTC

aminorex wrote: post #401

kilotaras wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bad analogy. Supply/demand ratio of musicians is way higher then for developers.

I agree that it is a bad analogy, but I think it goes far beyond supply and demand differences: Music is performed mostly by muscle memory, "system 1", while code is developed mostly by ratiocination, "system 2".

[deleted]

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#497

Post by nunez » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:29 PM UTC

If someone posts a link to their GitHub on their resume or makes mention of it during the interview process, I take that as "you are giving me free range to look at your code and potentially make a hiring/advancement decision based on what I see," and I definitely peruse and ask questions.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#498

Post by vpalanc1 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #75

kelnos wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're espousing a false dichotomy. The options in evaluating a candidate aren't merely "give them whiteboard coding problems" or "examine their side projects". Give them a take-home assignment. Give them an in-person assignment where they have several hours to complete a smallish design-and-build task. There are a lot more options, and I'm getting tired of people claiming they don't know how to evaluate technical ca…

Giving a candidate a "take-home assignment" is actually the most disrespectful of the options listed. Unless you're an awesome company, with really cool projects and offering me a jaw dropping salary and benefits, then no, I'm not going to do free work for you. Even if you are an awesome company, people probably have to actually work for you to see that, so no, I'm not going to do free work for you. I'd rather spend…

> so no, I'm not going to do free work for you.

My current employer, when hiring me, said "Have you ever looked at the Firefox codebase? No? Good. Here, take this Firefox bug. Fix it by Monday, or at least analyze the root cause, and let's talk about it during the interview".

Needless to say, they had no interest in Firefox per se. It was just a cool open-source project, and a good way to give me "actual work" while making it plainly obvious that it wasn't for their own benefit/ they weren't looking for "free code via tech interviews"

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#499

Post by nanodano » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #474

nanodano wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What % of candidates have side projects to show you? When I did interviews, I saw probably less than 10% have any side projects to show.

I work in consulting, almost entirely for federal and state government. Here that number is low single digits.

This is what I think most people fail to understand. It's not a _requirement_. The vast majority of people DON'T have side projects. Companies can't afford to simply auto-reject everyone who doesn't have side projects. The point is that if you do have any, it can help make you stand out dramatically.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#500

Post by dmoy » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

delphinius81 wrote: post #237

dmoy wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not work for anyone who currently has a job, unless your current employer has extremely lax moonlighting policies.

True, but a paid short-term contract to do an actual task for the company would work. Knock out a small feature during the night/weekend. Keep it something contained and relatively straight-forward. If they can get it done, it demonstrates the candidate's ability to parse your codebase (so they are learning something they'd need for the job anyway) and they have contributed. I think most companies just don't want to…

No it still wouldn't work for someone with a current job. That's a huge risk if you're responsible for supporting a family. If you quit and the new job doesn't work out, then you're kinda hosed.