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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#331

Post by ryandrake »

sbov wrote: post #19

I like to have side projects, but I still don't like to share them. People love to find reasons to reject, and an 18, 11, or 7 year long side project (the age of all my side projects) isn't really a fair representation of how I code today. Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project…

Also, keep in mind that some people can't share side projects or even work on them because their employers lay claim to all code they create, even on their free time.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#332

Post by foo101 »

AznHisoka wrote: post #313
kemitche wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

I would expect my doctor to read papers, news, etc to keep abreast of the latest medical advances though.

This! And similarly, software developers should keep abreast of latest technical advances.

What makes software engineering different from surgery is that when a surgeon learns something new, he does not have a live patient at his home to practice the new thing he has learnt, but as software engineers, most of the times we can immediately fire up an editor and write a PoC or a toy project to practice the new thing we have learnt.

Its strange that such natural and obvious curiosity and desire to try something out outside of work deserves the kind of criticism that it is receiving in the original article and some of the comments here.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#333

Post by foo101 »

kemitche wrote: post #269
notzorbo3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

> I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office.

What I do after the office hours is really none of your business. I should be able to do whatever I please (write code, play guitar, etc.) after office hours without you raising concerns about it.

If you believe I do not bring my clear focused mind to the office, then that is a separate issue to be discussed separately without bringing in what I do after office hours into the discussion. It is my prerogative, not yours, to decide if I need to give up what I am doing after office hours in order to focus better at office.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#334

Post by asmdev »

kemitche wrote: post #269
notzorbo3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

> I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office.

I don't understand how you equate doing side code projects to not bringing clear focused mind to the office.

Would you also much rather bring a well rounded individual who does not take art classes after work? Do you think taking arts classes after work would affect one's ability to focus in the office?

Then why do you make similar assumptions about doing side code projects? For many of us, doing side code project is like taking art classes. It is art for us and it helps us learn new things about the art of software development that is not always easy to learn in the constraints of real world software business. Most importantly, it is a relaxing and enjoyable experience. It refreshes our soul and combined with a good night's sleep, it helps us to better focus next day at work, not the other way around.

Are you saying that you would much rather not hire people like us who care about the art of software development because from your high horse, we don't look like "well rounded" individuals? If you hold this kind of irrational conservative beliefs, I'd much rather not work for you.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#335

Post by mdpopescu »

ryandrake wrote: post #319
apple4ever wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, I'm happy to hire someone who is dedicated, passionate, and loves coding enough to to a quick assignment. Its not free work, its a demonstration of skill. In fact, we just hired someone who did that, and her assignment came back better than expected. At first we were so-so on her due to potential lack of experience, but the assignment (and her projects on her personal site) showed us were wrong.

When you hire someone to fix your roof, do you make them build you a doghouse first to prove they know carpentry?

If I hire them to fix my roof and they leave a huge hole in it, I am expected to sue them and wait for a few years to recoup my losses (while having a huge hole in the roof).

I think I prefer the coding test.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#336

Post by andrew_wc_brown »

I wish companies cared about side-projects as qualifications for hiring. I send full projects and they never seem to peer into them when I query. I want them to look so we can have a discussion around them.

In the last 10 years I've built 40 web-apps and that doesn't include ~20 codebases of my own

I don't understand how you can be a programmer without having side-projects or at least contributions in open-source.

I end up contributing open source or creating my own libraries via work, so I'd still have things to show outside the scope of standard hours.

I can get not wanting to do CS algorithm puzzles in interviews since thats a specialized discipline rarely applicable to web-app development but this I can't get behind.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#337

Post by jackgolding »

eropple wrote: post #42
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

I agree with this, the whole need for a portfolio for a back-office role is bizarre to me - no one who has asked for my github has asked me about them, they are much more interested in me talking through my work related projects.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#338

Post by kamaal »

canadiancreed wrote: post #262
hobofan wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> before they ask you to do their multi-hour coding test for no money Where do all of you keep finding those companies? Is that an SV thing, or am I just not applying to "prestigious" enough companies? I've been on my fair share of interviews and haven't had that happen once, along with no whiteboard interviews. I can echo your experience about Github projects playing a small role apart from signaling though. Once, a…

They're pretty rampant in Canada. You usually get one of these types: - Long home coding challenge (for no pay of course) - Hours of whiteboard coding talk. If you're lucky it relates to the job at hand, most of the time it doesn't - Doing coding tests online, either through their propitiatory app or through sites like HackerRank. - A conversation type interview, where you talk about the job (have only had this one i…

>>Long home coding challenge (for no pay of course)

There is a way to do this. But some people go a little too far.

Last years one start up asked me to write an entire backend application for them for free.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#339

Post by stickydink »

qq66 wrote: post #299

The "side project" culture is a by-product of not having a standardized approach to professional development in software engineering. Doctors, teachers, and pilots are all expected to refresh their skills, and their time to do this is baked into their salary. Software engineers need to do the same, but it's not baked into their salary, so they have to do it independently. You wouldn't pay a tax preparer for his time…

An independent tax preparer, sure. A tax preparer that works for a firm would almost certainly be allowed to spend their paid working hours learning this year’s tax code.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#340

Post by asmdev »

mi100hael wrote: post #293
candiodari wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? Besides, you are only using this as a negative ? So you'll actually hire people who don't put in extra effort over people who put slightly substandard free time code online ? That seems like a losing strategy. I've always found that willingness to put in effort vastly outperforms ability. Not to an infinite extent, but quite a bit.

> You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? If someone knows that much git, I'd hire them regardless. I'm so sick of untangling other peoples failed merges or trying to explain what the "not a fast-forward" issue means when their push fails.

To be fair to the people whose merges failed, I believe this is a shortcoming of git (the tool) and not the people using it.

It is fair to expect a developer to invest sometime in learning their tools well but git is a different beast. I know it solves a very complex problem but the fact that it exposes a complex interface to the user to do so seems like a shortcoming of the tool to me.

Heck, we even have a comic for it that shows how sometimes just saving my work, deleting my clone, re-cloning the repo and applying the changes in my work is easier than understanding the Git error messages: https://xkcd.com/1597/.

The tooltip in the comic is also sound advice: If that doesn't fix it, git.txt contains the phone number of a friend of mine who understands git. Just wait through a few minutes of 'It's really pretty simple, just think of branches as...' and eventually you'll learn the commands that will fix everything.

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