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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#261

Post by yowlingcat »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

If you hire explicitly based on code with no way to gauge ability to collaborate with others, design, or probe business requirements, I really wonder how strong your team is and how competent you are as a manager.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#262

Post by canadiancreed »

hobofan wrote: post #193
eropple wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, that doesn't happen. And I go on a lot of interviews; it's an activity that helps with a set of skills that I always need to keep sharp. And, along those lines, I get a lot of offers! But it has never-not-once been related to my Github profile. In my experience, it is employers signaling how cool they are before they ask you to do their multi-hour coding test for no money.

> before they ask you to do their multi-hour coding test for no money Where do all of you keep finding those companies? Is that an SV thing, or am I just not applying to "prestigious" enough companies? I've been on my fair share of interviews and haven't had that happen once, along with no whiteboard interviews. I can echo your experience about Github projects playing a small role apart from signaling though. Once, a…

They're pretty rampant in Canada. You usually get one of these types:

- Long home coding challenge (for no pay of course) - Hours of whiteboard coding talk. If you're lucky it relates to the job at hand, most of the time it doesn't - Doing coding tests online, either through their propitiatory app or through sites like HackerRank. - A conversation type interview, where you talk about the job (have only had this one in my recent attempt. Didn't get past that phase)

Of the roughly 30 interviews that I've done in the last ten weeks, only one place ever asked about my github profile (which I don't have yet, currently revamping it since most of the code was years old and pretty meh). Almost every one of them had questions about my linkedin profile though.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#263

Post by vonnik »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

I think the author is confusing the search for passion with the search for better information. If you can’t share code from past and current employers, and you don’t believe that your quick and dirty solution during the interview represents your best work, then a side project that shows a little carefully crafted code is one way to give a potential employer better information. And better information derisks hiring decisions. With perfect information, hiring decisiInd make themselves. It’s perfectly fine to prefer art projects to side projects in code, as long as you also accept the informational disadvantage and its repercussions.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#264

Post by canadiancreed »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #131
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

No--instead you get dance-like-a-monkey "coding tests" (unpaid, of course) that are nonportable from employer to employer. Anecdote time! I had a potential employer ask me to do the tutorial for their framework before the interview. I submitted a pull request to fix errors in their documentation during the interview. I got the offer but didn't wind up taking it. I don't do those types of things anymore because it's m…

I had something similar where they had a test app online, but the test environment was broken to the point of it being non usable. Emailed them as to what was broken including error messages. Got an email cancelling my interview twenty minutes later.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#265

Post by fcbrooklyn »

kelnos wrote: post #32
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

The next time I'm interviewing in front of a hiring manager who asks me about my side coding projects, I'm going to ask them about their side managing projects.

I'm a hiring manager, and I've been dying for someone to ask me a question like that. I'm proud of the mentoring I've done, and I have a whole bunch of folks I'd love to have candidates talk to to see how I am to work for. But noone ever asks (understandably), and it feels pretentious to force the issue.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#266

Post by gfodor »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #239

This is simple. It's Economics 101: Supply and Demand. 1. You work hard to improve yourself and gain more skills that people will want to hire you for. 2. More people will want to hire you 3. Demand goes up, while supply (yourself) is fixed. 4. Your price goes up. On the other hand, if you care so much about your "life quality" and put absolutely 0 effort to improve yourself outside of work, 1. You don't have much to…

Yep, pretty much this. If the interviewer didn't think a person who had side projects was waiting in line behind you for the next interview slot, they wouldn't have passed.

I tend to be skeptical of most forms of software engineering interview tactics, but work samples is not one of them. Strong side projects is a strong indicator of skill. FWIW, for those who do not have projects like the OP, its important IMHO to offer a take-home variety. If you do not have side projects, and are not willing to do a few hours of take home work, then I usually screen you out since there are plenty of other candidates that fit in either bucket and will be easier to make an informed hiring decision about.

A strong work sample is an unnecessary but largely sufficient condition for assessing hands-on-keyboard coding skills (a subset of the skills needed to be a good software engineer), so screening out people who don't have them, when there is a glut of supply of skilled labor, as it might be in Austin, is a rational strategy.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#267

Post by careersuicide »

megy wrote: post #215
apple4ever wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, I'm happy to hire someone who is dedicated, passionate, and loves coding enough to to a quick assignment. Its not free work, its a demonstration of skill. In fact, we just hired someone who did that, and her assignment came back better than expected. At first we were so-so on her due to potential lack of experience, but the assignment (and her projects on her personal site) showed us were wrong.

So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone. Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people. Ha, but seriously, I hate take home assignments.

> So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone.

This is almost entirely the point of take home assignments. In fact, this is almost word for word what my response would be to anyone who doesn't like take home assignments!

> Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people.

Step two is admitting that, in general, evaluating people using non-empirical means is an enterprise fraught with peril.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#268

Post by jjcm »

sbov wrote: post #19

I like to have side projects, but I still don't like to share them. People love to find reasons to reject, and an 18, 11, or 7 year long side project (the age of all my side projects) isn't really a fair representation of how I code today. Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project…

Here's what I've done for something like this - a few days before I was set to do rounds of interviews, I took a couple hours for each of my old side projects to comment what I would have done differently in my code. It's much easier to do and it gives the employers a dive into your current thinking when it comes to development.

As an example, check the source on my homepage: http://jjcm.org

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#269

Post by kemitche »

notzorbo3 wrote: post #117
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers.

I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#270

Post by tootie »

walshemj wrote: post #66
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

Dude as a Dude who knows a little about employment law all your work code belongs to your employer.

That's actually not always true. Usually, yes. Not always.
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