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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#481

Post by gruez »

glenstein wrote: post #478
gruez wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is that different from "installing software"? It's easy to see this play out if try to replace "sideloading" with "installing software". If you apply it to OP's headline of >Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android You get >Google confirms 'high-friction' installing software flow is coming to Android which isn't at all accurate. You still need the distinct concept of "installing soft…

Sure, you could argue it helps to express a distinction but that doesn't mean it has to live inside the verb install. Historically installing software was the general act and provenance was handled with qualifiers eg installing from "third-party sources", "manual install" etc. Android is alone among computing platforms in collapsing that qualifier into a new term that implicitly recenters the Play Store as the defaul…

>Sure, you could argue it helps to express a distinction but that doesn't mean it has to live inside the verb install.

Right, which is why they used "sideload".

>In other ecosystems the store path is described as "store install" not the other way around. Android chose the inverse framing and that choice isn't neutral.

No, this is just being non-neutral in the opposite direction. Given the fact that installing from the play store is the default experience for the overwhelming majority of the user, calling it "store install" is even more obtuse.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#482

Post by tcfhgj »

nkrisc wrote: post #248
pmlnr wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I install my banking apps? Choose a bank with viable web banking. > Is there a Google pay equivalent? It's called a debit/credit card.

Most people don’t want to rearrange their life around what their phone can’t do.

they will have to when Android closes down

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#483

Post by koolala »

largbae wrote: post #357

Articles like this where we lament being trapped in an ecosystem duopoly are contemporary with articles saying that software engineering is over and LLMs can just vibe code anything you imagine. What's keeping the duopoly in charge?. Code signing?

You think a local model will get to that point? Some AGI revolution like your describing is impossible for humanity as a whole even if LLMs get that smart. The same companies control the supercomputers and your access to them.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#484

Post by neves »

pbmonster wrote: post #415
sghiassy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The YouTube app on iOS is superior to the Android app for one

A YouTube client that can't AdBlock and SponsorBlock automatically is strictly worse.

Is there clients that block? I just use Brave browser

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#485

Post by glenstein »

gorbachev wrote: post #131
whyagaindavid wrote: post #22

> Matthew Forsyth, Director of Product Management, Google Play Developer Experience & Chief Product Explainer, said the system isn’t a sideloading restriction, but an “Accountability Layer.” And... What about accountability for hosting distributing spyware, malware loaded apps from Google Playstore and hundreds of copy cat, misleading apps? Why can't they pose a question when the phone is setup? - Yes, I want to side…

This right here exposes the bullshittery about the reasons behind preventing sideloading on Android phones. For Google everything is about protecting revenue, even when doing so exposes their users to real harm, and that's why they will not address the issue of copycat apps, poor practices on play store security or anything else that lowers the number of downloads on apps on play store. But, heaven forbid, I want to…

Right. Or, the way I might put it, you could have set up a system that empowers trusted alternative distributors so that you're not killing F-Droid.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#486

Post by themaninthedark »

miki123211 wrote: post #470
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

This isn't about pure revenue, it's about scams. Android has a reputation for being unsafe precisely because of sideloading (as well as low Google Play fees, looser app review, accessibility services and remote access). This policy is bad for us HNers, but objectively good for the 95+% of people who will never sideload a legitimate Android app, but are extremely likely to get caught by scammers. The heavy US skew of…

And yet the times that I have dealt with Android phone issues (2 times in the last year), it has been an app that was popping up full screen ads.

Both phone users have no idea how to sideload, everything was installed from the Play store.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#487

Post by dns_snek »

jorvi wrote: post #376
shuckles wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people complaining about Safari often are running enterprise crapware that requires some esoteric Chrome API or bug to operate correctly and should actually be an app on iOS but cannot be funded as such because its creators don’t care about its users.

Well, formerly you would have been right, but WebUSB and whatnot are gaining a lot more traction. I didn't take WebUSB seriously until I steered someone to flashing a small firmware onto something and they could do it straight from the browser! And it was a nice workflow too, just a few button and a permission click. Two other examples I can think of are flashing Via (keyboard) firmware and Poweramp using WebADB via…

WebUSB is a giant gaping hole in the browser sandbox. Innocent use cases are really nice, I've used WebUSB to flash GrapheneOS on my device, but the possibilities for users to shoot themselves in the foot with nefarious website are almost endless.

Consider the fact that Chromium has to specifically blacklist Yubikey and other known WebAuthn vendor IDs, otherwise any website could talk to your Yubikey pretending to be a browser and bypass your 2FA on third party domains.

I'm conflicted on WebUSB because it's convenient but on the balance I think it's too dangerous to expose to the general public. I don't know how it could be made safer without sacrificing its utility and convenience.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#488

Post by MrDresden »

tcfhgj wrote: post #118
MrDresden wrote: post #24

When this whole thing got announced, I purchased a new Pixel 9 and flashed it with GrapheneOS. I am hoping that in about 6-8 years (when I realistically need to update) the landscape might be a bit better. Or who knows, maybe I'll just continue using GrapheneOS. So far I have not had a single issues with it. Apps the rely on attestation do not work, but honestly it's only two applications out of hundreds so I can liv…

The new phone is a nice reward for Google for this announcement

Nah, rather an upgrade from an ancient device. But good try there.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#489

Post by pier25 »

ars wrote: post #462
pier25 wrote: post #453

The vast majority of Android users don't sideload apps. I used Android for years and only did it during dev. I don't know anyone who does it.

I had to sideload telegram, the version on Google Play has restrictions (censorship I believe) that the sideloaded version doesn't.

the vast majority != 100%

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#490

Post by cannonpalms »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #440
hulitu wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but things on the iPhone really do “just work”. For values of “just work” close to 0. Make a picture, connect with a Windows PC, iOS needs a password, then the picture is not visible to the PC, disconnect, go with Apple photos to look at the picture, repeat connecting, with password, now it is visible. Try to set up a hotspot, there is no button to turn the hotspot on/off. So yes, it “just works"

> Try to set up a hotspot, there is no button to turn the hotspot on/off. I’m confused, which button? Do Android phones come with a physical button to enable hotspot?

Just a quick shortcut
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