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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#481

Post by aiProgMach »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #293
teekert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I realize it is perhaps hypocritical, but somehow I thought we had figured it out. I mean we (EU and US) also could have done more talking less warmongering. I’m also disappointed with our leaders.

"We" tried talking, "we" didn't do the warmongering, where is that coming from? Granted, the US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east; I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11, but instead of rooting out the ones responsible directly they made up a motive (WOMD in Iraq) and did a full scale invasion there; I'm not saying Iraq was a pleasant, peaceful country or that Hussein was a nice guy, but the US inv…

Even when you're admitting that "US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east" you want to give them some excuses, "I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11" you say? "retaliate" you say. Against whom exactly? How the (oppressed) Iraqi people or even Saddam Hussein has to do anything with the 9/11? Do I really need to remind you that Saddam was US ally? or that Qaeda was the US ally in the "freedom" war against USSR? "But Europe hasn't done any of that" You say, but this is completely wrong, all or most of US wars were covered by European countries, even Ukraine sent 5000 Soldier to kill the Iraqi people. I get it this was in that weird mysterious place called "middle east" so who cares exactly.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#482

Post by wolframhempel »

I see a lot of wishes for this to be over soon - and I feel the same. But realistically, I'm afraid that due to the severity of Russia's attack and the West's response, there's simply no perspective for a peaceful future with Putin in it. Whether Ukraine falls or prevails, there won't be peace as long as Putin is in charge.

This brings up the question of what to do about it - and, apart from an uprising by the Russian people leading to a regime change - there are few solutions that feel particularly pleasant.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#483

Post by dash2 »

5ESS wrote: post #430
khyryk wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has been running Goebbels-levels of propaganda to counteract whatever benefit came from access to western media. How much progress has been made since 2014?

Quoted post unavailable.

That is completely untrue. Until a few days ago, RT was openly available throughout Europe. As far as I know, it is still available in America, which protects freedom of speech in its constitution.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#484

Post by Yoric »

jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

Oh, please, let's not start blaming most Russians.

These sanctions are about ruining the Russian war machine, as well as demonstrating to other authoritarian governments tempted by imperialism that attacking democracies is a bad idea. Individual Russians (with the exception of oligarchs) are collateral damage. And despite the fact that Russians are (probably) going to suffer deeply for it, it's (probably) the right way to do it, because any other strategy (that I can think of) involves either nuclear bombs falling sooner or later.

Of course, if Russians somehow manage to reinstate democracy in their country, that will be the best outcome. But don't count on it, revolutions are hard and deadly.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#485

Post by khyryk »

5ESS wrote: post #430
khyryk wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has been running Goebbels-levels of propaganda to counteract whatever benefit came from access to western media. How much progress has been made since 2014?

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#486

Post by jq-r »

willis936 wrote: post #378
MrDisposable wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may work in a country where private business (i.e. state-independent source of income) is dominant, but a lot of Russians have jobs at state-owned institutions now (various administrations etc.) where they work for a meager wage. If they go out protesting, they will be fired from their jobs -- their only source of income. Not exactly a good decision, especially during the crisis times.

The sky is falling and you think workers should be concerned with a wage that can't even afford bread and a roof? The sanction squeeze shifts the calculus.

The sky is not falling for those government employed workers yet. First the private sector will degrade and government will try to squeeze every last cent out of it to pay the public sector workers. So when that dries up, then you can expect trouble. But this process can last for some time, it doesn't usually happen overnight. I know that there are major sanctions and West is trying to tank Russian economy, but don't expect to see public sector workers on the streets just yet.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#487

Post by modernpink »

9214 wrote: post #411
blablablub wrote: post #269

What are the possibilities for an average russian citizen to leave russia and start over somewhere in the west? How about visas? Does anyone know?

In 2022: zero, unless you have relatives/friends from abroad who are willing to help. I'm mid-20s below-average Russian born and raised in a city with population of 19k (and declining), Ural region. Average salary here is around 200-300 USD, 400 if you are lucky. I emmigrated in 2019 to work with an international startup in Montenegro: and ended up being ostracized and harassed by my manager from another country (won…

The Russophobia that has been pouring out is lamentable. And people don't realise this will only push the Russian people further towards Putin to re-establish their pride. And the sanctions are making this even worse. This mirrors Germany's treatment with the Treaty of Versailles leading up to WWII.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#488

Post by aa-jv »

fabian2k wrote: post #156
dotancohen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thre is no systematic murder in Ukraine. But this is how the UN defines genocide: > a. Killing members of the group; > b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > e. Forcibly transferring childre…

This is a pure war of agression, it is an invasion. There is no justification at all for this.

It is a crime against humanity to cut water supplies into populated areas. What would your state do if water was being diverted away from Los Angeles by Canada?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#489

Post by prima-facie »

_ph_ wrote: post #473

These are probably good recommendations, but to be honest, this is just data. Any Russian still reading here obviously has a working internet connection and has technical interests and skills. To all those Russians I can only say: please help spread the information about what is going on in Ukraine. That should be the highest priority, not just to save some data. Russia is getting isolated for a reason. There is an i…

> To all those Russians I can only say: please help spread the information about what is going on in Ukraine.

As these sanctions kick in I think we're going to see less and less sympathy from the Russian people.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#490

Post by elefanten »

pydry wrote: post #365
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what? Everybody would be happy ever after? No, Russia wants a pro-Russia government in Ukraine, and they didn't like that Ukraine instead moved away from Russia and Russian influence via things like promoting the Ukranian language instead of Russian. It's a bullying tactic and infringes on a country's sovereignty.

Is peace not the highest priority? I dont want Ukraine to be pro Russian but I dont want Kyiv to be shelled more . I dont want a nuclear war more. It absolutely is a bullying tactic, but it's also the desperate act of a country that is trying to protect the integrity of its most exposed border from an explicitly hostile power (NATO).

This is dishonesty. There is no “protection” story. There is no credible threat and Russia has nukes.

You cant accept every argument someone makes. Because they’ll realize it in short order and then make stupid arguments to manipulate you.

“Russia needs to protect itself from Ukraine” is a dishonest, stupid argument.

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