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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#141

Post by vegai_ »

gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

Key differences:

- Ukraine is a democracy (not without its problems but getting better) and part of the west

- Casus belli were 95% lies (ok, this one is similar to some US wars)

- The attacker uses "culture wars" as casus belli (Putin refers to "degenerates" et al)

- The part of the attacker's casus belli that mentions Russian Empire also touches on several other east and north european countries -- perhaps this wasn't intended and the whole thing was just crazy rambling or perhaps there's something there

- The attacker is a crazed dictator who has been in power for 22 years and who might be lashing out due to his own deteriorating health

- The goal is to annex the whole country (there was extensive lying that it wouldn't be, but the actual goal has been revealed several times by video representations and accidentally published documents)

- The leader of the attacking nation has lost all credibility in the world's eyes

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#142

Post by MrDisposable »

leolevlev wrote: post #67

Not all services have local replacements, but I strongly recommend storing your backups in the ru segment. In the case of shutting down cloud providers like Google nothing would work fine for several days, and your unstable service – not a main problem for all others. #НетВойне #РоссияНеМолчи

  > storing your backups in the ru segment
Or locally, on your owh HDD. It's a shame though that the HDD prices will soon become exorbitant, and a NAS would be unreachable for most folks.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#143

Post by [deleted] »

MrDisposable wrote: post #24
cf141q5325 wrote: post #12

You might want to check stuff like virtual office service, incorporation in an EU country, they start really cheap, as well as getting a VPS to bounce from. And stuff like Electronic Money Institutes for at least some really basic banking. Fair warning though, some of these things look rather shady so use some common sense and be careful with your local legislation (See MrDisposables response) edit: To elaborate on t…

> "incorporation in an EU country" Illegal, due to the "КИК" law, and, if I remember correctly, punishable by a heavy yearly fine (about $50K ath the current exchange rate). > "Electronic Money Institutes for at least some really basic banking" Outgoing transfers to foreign banks and electronic money institutions are now illegal, due to the yesterday's order that forbids Russian residents to transfer money to their o…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#144

Post by Jataman606 »

darebak wrote: post #48
readthenotes1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big difference is that by and large, Ukraine has won the narrative. There are no "Ukrainian artillery: go fuck yourself" stories. There's also no barely veiled threats by the US that we would nuke Iraq or Afghanistan etc. nor drop the ISS on them.

Ukraine has won the narrative in the West because Western countries wanted it that way, it's actually pretty easy to do when you cut out opposing propaganda.

You really think the only reason that Ukraine won the narrative is that no one listens to Russian lies?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#145

Post by inglor_cz »

MrDisposable wrote: post #24
cf141q5325 wrote: post #12

You might want to check stuff like virtual office service, incorporation in an EU country, they start really cheap, as well as getting a VPS to bounce from. And stuff like Electronic Money Institutes for at least some really basic banking. Fair warning though, some of these things look rather shady so use some common sense and be careful with your local legislation (See MrDisposables response) edit: To elaborate on t…

> "incorporation in an EU country" Illegal, due to the "КИК" law, and, if I remember correctly, punishable by a heavy yearly fine (about $50K ath the current exchange rate). > "Electronic Money Institutes for at least some really basic banking" Outgoing transfers to foreign banks and electronic money institutions are now illegal, due to the yesterday's order that forbids Russian residents to transfer money to their o…

Interesting.

JetBrains, s.r.o., producers of IntelliJ (and a bunch of other IDEs such as Android Studio, PhpStorm and CLion) are incorporated in the Czech Republic, but in practice, all the development is done in Russia.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#146

Post by gattilorenz »

darebak wrote: post #106
ardit33 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. When people get hungry, they eat their leaders.... Look at what happened to Ceaușescu... Putin risks to end up like him.

Not true. Tell me, if Google banned you from all their services because you only lived somewhere and you were a "soft liberal", would you support Google in their decision or would you dig in and go the other way? Or in more simpler terms, take football fans, are they hungry at their ultras when they get fined for something or are they angry at UEFA? All Europe is doing by these discrimination measures is creating a s…

Those of UEFA and Google are silly, symbolic sanctions. What the EU and US are doing is trying to tank Russia's economy and seize/block the oligarchs' properties. Whether that works is left to be seen, but there are already large protests against the war, there might be more protests against the harsh economic conditions, and Putin cannot just arrest everyone.

But in any case, the whole point is that sanctions are unfair, as they will hit plenty of people that are not involved in the war in any way and do not support it. "We" use them because "we" believe that they work (I hope so, but you might be right of course, I'm no expert), not out of spite for a whole population.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#147

Post by pishpash »

vemv wrote: post #17
gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

I'll point out the obvious: Ukraine is simply too close to home for many of us Europeans - they're our neighbors, colleagues, friends, we vacation in Kiev, they're our football rivals. We broadly share culture, race, etc. Few of those can be said about Iraq which is far away enough to seem some sort of abstract topic. So, having war at home (vs. in a newspaper) is completely novel for us and therefore unacceptable.

So, racism?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#148

Post by sudosysgen »

all_factz wrote: post #58
sudosysgen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not whataboutism and it is so tired. It's about the fact that this isn't about the human suffering caused by Russia, it's a conflict between major power - case in point, all of the previous instances of similar behaviour from multiple countries that went unpunished. When evidence fly in the face of a narrative, whataboutism isn't a defense. Whataboutism would be if they said it's fine for Putin to commit atro…

Many people in the US were very opposed to the Iraq war (the war in Afghanistan, though stupid, had a more real precedent). It would have been good had the US suffered sanctions for invading Iraq, but sadly the geopolitical reality didn’t support that at the time. Does that mean we should just roll over and accept deeply unethical and wrongheaded behavior from a different country? (It’s also worth pointing out that t…

I'm sure many people in the US were opposed to it. Did they have a choice though? Both of those wars were essentially unanimous amongst the ruling class. There is nothing the average citizen can do at that point. You claim “this isn’t about the human suffering caused by Russia”. You sure about that? I think most people feel like a primary issue with invading another country is the amount of human suffering it causes.

Oh people most definitely do, an I am sure you and I both do. But clearly the countries imposing sanctions, almost every single one of which engaged in a bloody war of agression in the recent past, don't. Actions speak louder than words. >

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#149

Post by dotancohen »

fabian2k wrote: post #122
dotancohen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But even Iraq does seem different: Hussein was a brutal dictator and, at least initially, Americans were welcomed as liberators. In some areas in Eastern Ukraine, the Russians have been suffering "genocide" (whatever that term has been redefined to mean, but obviously not systematic murder) and the Russian forces were welcomed as liberators.

That is Russian propaganda and simply not true. There is no genocide against Russians in Ukraine.

Thre is no systematic murder in Ukraine. But this is how the UN defines genocide:

  > a. Killing members of the group;
  > b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  > c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  > d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  > e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
There are credible reports of b. and c. in Eastern Ukraine against Russians. Therefore, by UN definition, genocide. You and I might not like that definition, but Putin has a leg to stand on.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#150

Post by cf141q5325 »

Svoka wrote: post #19

[flagged]

I had an acquaintance in Russia. He got chronic stomach problems since he couldnt afford a diverse diet due to the sanctions on food imports (the Russian sanctions on the EU aimed at making the Russian economy more resilient). Last time i heard from him he manage to move a nestegg into Dollar taking a hefty cut due to devaluations. I lost contact when Russia blacklisted the site we knew each other from and he didnt want to risk getting a VPN. Also talked to somebody from Belarus who saw the protests and cleanups happening. I am really curious about what you would tell them what they should have done to not become a target for you.

Would recommend a sober look in the mirror as well as maybe getting a copy of Chris Hedges "War is a force that gives us meaning". The "there are no innocence in war" is a textbook warcry right out of conflicts like Yugoslav one. Its the tactical dehumanization of the enemy. To have a one dimensional caricature to rally people against. Its what makes it logical to escalate the conflict to ethnic cleansing. Its great for polarization after all and you get people to join you who would never associated with you in the first place. It even works in prisons. And its absolutely horrible. And has the additional benefit of whitewashing yourself, after all, nobody is innocent.

Lets call your post for what it is, its warmongering. And the fact that you are rightfully outraged doesnt change that. What you are doing is creating and perpetuating a narrative that sets the stage for atrocities against the civilian population. They are all guilty after all, so you get to be as well.

I am honestly shocked that people dont get that there is a whole lot of room to escalate from where we are now. And i am very much afraid that people dont grasp that. Or worse, they do but prefer to embrace their emotional reaction on the topic. Or take it out of a strategic calculation. But at the end the malice or stupidity spetrum is completely irrelevant. It all has the same result.

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