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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#121

Post by nickpp »

sneak wrote: post #63
travisgriggs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This highlights one of my growing ethical dillemas. I am a US citizen, and sometimes I am really ashamed of my country. We have done some really bad stuff. We’ve done a whole lot of shady stuff that is complicated to pass simple judgement on. But the US has done good stuff as well. They loan money, send aid, rebuild, provide. Some times the motives are duplicitous in these acts of good. But the bottom line is, when I…

> When it comes to USSR/Russia, I am not aware of the good acts. It’s not just that thy do bad things, it’s that I never hear of any of the good things they do in the world at large. The red army took Berlin and ended the Nazis. It was an Allied victory but it came about because Russia put their full might into stopping Hitler. This is not insignificant if you don't like what the third reich was up to. It came at a t…

That was 80 years ago and since then the Soviet Communist regime killed more people than Hitler. Their "good deeds" are becoming thinner and thinner.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#122

Post by fabian2k »

dotancohen wrote: post #89
randomsearch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

> But even Iraq does seem different: Hussein was a brutal dictator and, at least initially, Americans were welcomed as liberators. In some areas in Eastern Ukraine, the Russians have been suffering "genocide" (whatever that term has been redefined to mean, but obviously not systematic murder) and the Russian forces were welcomed as liberators.

That is Russian propaganda and simply not true. There is no genocide against Russians in Ukraine.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#123

Post by hnhg »

jsmith99 wrote: post #86
randomsearch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

The Iraq war was a terrible error but it still can't be compared to Ukraine. America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire. Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism: getting rid of an unquestionably evil dictator who used WMDs on his own people. There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

It should be assessed on its own merits, including the aftermath, in all its glory, such as: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/09/21/new-study-do...

I'd also remind you that we have insufficient evidence to suggest that the aim was naive altruism. It could have been naively ideological: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#124

Post by darebak »

lucky1759 wrote: post #109
darebak wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did not, if you have any international court verdict that says that Serbia conducted a genocide, I would like to see it. Also Serbia was not at war with Slovenia. Those are the basic facts. Now, even if those things were true, they are claimed by the proponents of bombing, enemies if you will, the same way that Putin is claiming there is a genocide of million Ukrainians in Ukraine. Do you believe your enemies?

Here you go: https://www.rferl.org/a/yugoslavia-hague-tribunal-major-mome... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/bosnian-serb-military-l... Multiple ethnic "serbs" were convicted of genociding muslims.

That's not a source that tells Serbia committed a genocide, because such source doesn't exist.

Ethnic Serbs in Bosnia are a different thing, same as ethnic Bosniak in Serbia are a different thing. Also I found it telling that used Serbs in quotation marks.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#125

Post by lb1lf »

sneak wrote: post #63
travisgriggs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This highlights one of my growing ethical dillemas. I am a US citizen, and sometimes I am really ashamed of my country. We have done some really bad stuff. We’ve done a whole lot of shady stuff that is complicated to pass simple judgement on. But the US has done good stuff as well. They loan money, send aid, rebuild, provide. Some times the motives are duplicitous in these acts of good. But the bottom line is, when I…

> When it comes to USSR/Russia, I am not aware of the good acts. It’s not just that thy do bad things, it’s that I never hear of any of the good things they do in the world at large. The red army took Berlin and ended the Nazis. It was an Allied victory but it came about because Russia put their full might into stopping Hitler. This is not insignificant if you don't like what the third reich was up to. It came at a t…

While undoubtedly true, one should keep in mind that Stalin first cynically entered into a non-aggression pact with the nazi regime, showing blatant disregard for Poland in the process.

Not to mention that a significant part of the Soviet Union's losses in WW2 came about from a similar disregard for the lives of its own soldiers.

This is not to discount the sacrifice made by those who fought and died, though.

(And Treptower Park is, as you say, hauntingly powerful. I've been there on three occasions when visiting Berlin.)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#126

Post by mediumsmart »

randomsearch wrote: post #47
gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

>protection of a terrorist organisation that had repeatedly attacked American targets internationally before their deliberate targeted murder of thousands of American civilians.

that would be Al-Qaeda which emerged in 1988 out of the afghan mujaheedin who were financed until 1990 with more than 600 Million tax dollars by the CIA to kick out the Russians. Better luck this time? the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn.

1988 is also the year of the Halabja massacre pinned on Iran first by the US but it turned out that Saddam Hussein (at that time an Ally of the United States) carried out this largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history,[2] killing between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injuring 7,000 to 10,000 more, most of them civilians.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#127

Post by dgellow »

shaolinspirit wrote: post #84
mythz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains founders are Russian and have publicly condemned the attacks [1]. JetBrains does have offices in Moscow and Saint Petersburg but they're technically a Czech company with their head office in Prague, Czech Republic. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30459985

it is a full-scale war, there are no "attacks"

4 days ago it wasn't the case yet. Things are evolving insanely fast.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#128

Post by marius_k »

kragen wrote: post #2

You're absolutely right. Worth mentioning that even though Binance was founded by a Chinese guy and is banned in the US, they're saying they'll cooperate with sanctions. So if your savings are in Binance, maybe move them to a wallet where you hold the keys, not some server overseas.

Can we sanction Putins orgs on blockchain? Ask HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510973

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#129

Post by darebak »

nickpp wrote: post #115
darebak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, that doesn't seem to have that much bearing. I still remember Western news about Serbia during the Kosovo conflict where Serbia was doing basically what Ukraine is doing now.

Serbia was an aggressor in the Yugoslavian Wars. Ukraine is just defending from an invasion.

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#130

Post by Svoka »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #72
Svoka wrote: post #19

[flagged]

Nobody sane thinks that normal citizens deserve sanctions; they're for the most part not responsible for the madness of one man; this is obvious when you think back about how half of the USA thought about Trump but was unable to do anything - an din Russia it's much worse. But the sanctions are meant to make people angry, go out and send a strong signal to their leaders they want a change. This is the most the West c…

I do think they should pay reparations in full after this is over. It is not one man madness. This was coming from far away, he was elected, every poll suggests about half of Russian population is in support of the war.
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