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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#471

Post by happyraul »

server_man3000 wrote: post #2

Didn’t this start as unlimited anywhere for 9 euros no strings attached? I LOVE the German transit system (although Denmark wins in cleanliness). However, Germany is a bit predatory with this new system. You can ONLY purchase this ticket as a subscription model. If you’re a tourist, you must cancel before the 10th of the month or you get auto rebilled. Additionally, there are so many apps that resell the ticket as so…

Cancellation terms vary by vendor. With some better ones, you can cancel 24 hours before the end of the month to avoid being billed for the next month.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#472

Post by black_puppydog »

weinzierl wrote: post #233
black_puppydog wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. I often use DB navigator to plan trips within france. As soon as you're not going to or from Paris, the sncf offer and app are just terrible. Often, sncf-connect will refuse to offer me TER-only (regional train) trips, because one of the legs can also be done by TGV. Basically impossible to plan this kind of thing with the SNCF apps. But even the basic UX is terrible. The most blatant example of this is…

"But even the basic UX is terrible. The most blatant example of this is the choice to make the first text input on the search the target station." This is just your preference and not terrible UX. In fact I find this the more intuitive way.

It might be more intuitive if this was the first travel app every developed. But I don't personally any other transit UI that uses this pattern, and that makes using the sncf search "the weird one" and not in a good way.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#474

Post by mk89 »

archi42 wrote: post #219
lispm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, students pay for it, 29.40 €. It's a part of the semester fees, IIRC.

For those not familiar with how this works/worked: At most universities, a similar fee was collected from all students. That was then used to finance a regional "public transport flatrate". N.b.: mk89 is technically not quite correct, it wasn't free (nothing in life is). It's usually bundled with the tuition/enrollment fee. Implementation details differed per University, but for us the fee (80 or 100€, can't recall)…

Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess uni students don't know or don't care so it's "for free" (in the sense it's part of the tuition fee) :)

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#475

Post by unglaublich »

k__ wrote: post #120

It's pretty awesome, but it gets more expensive all the time. First it started as 9€ ticket for 3 months. People loved it, and the government talked about doing a permanent 29€ ticket. But now we pay 49€ and it's already planned to become 59€. Really sad, as it isn't affordable for poor people anymore.

€59 is a steal. The goal is to move people to public transport and strengthen economy, not to be a charity to folks that want unlimited (!) transportation but don’t have € 60/month to show for it.

Even so, cities subsidize this ticket for the “poor”, so practically their costs are even lower.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#476

Post by vaylian »

jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

> That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne.

That assumes that there is still sufficient potential for additional use of these cheaper carbon abatement methods. The tricky part about fighting climate change is that we have to make change in many different places. Each partial solution has only a limited capacity for deployment.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#477

Post by jona-f »

jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

This is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin, my head is spinning. Luckily HN came to the rescue for once. But sadly this is the kind of reasoning that actually works in politics and finance.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#478

Post by jona-f »

nkmnz wrote: post #460
Tade0 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you estimate the dollar value of happiness?

Can you estimate the additional happiness brought by trains?

No, but we can look at the amount of misery, that is prevented by not using cars. Traffic jams, pollution, accidents, waste of resources,... The difference is so huge, we don't need to put a number on it. Public transport might be unpleasant for the individual, but is clearly very much better for everyone than using cars.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#479

Post by dbspin »

ikawe wrote: post #351
netsharc wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of this Swedish office on a train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HbrI3refig , made for a company which had an hour train commute from Stockholm. It's even got 8 telephone line (4 in and 4 out)! I guess a lot of people would use work booths/conference rooms on trains, but the price/profit has to work for both sides (the train company and users). As for trains, the old-fashioned 6 seater compartments…

This is an aside, but I’d never seen that “Beyond 2000” show before. Retro future is a favorite topic of mine, so thanks for sharing. Yeeesh though, re: part 2 of that episode, it’s wild to watch people in 1988 articulate the looming threat of global warming, and to hear them say on this 25 year old program “we’ve known about this for 30 years”

Yeah - as someone born in 1979, I find repetitions of the idea that global warming / climate change only came into public awareness 'in the last 15 to 20 years' on TV news and in documentaries deeply troubling. Global warming was constantly discussed on (British) television during my childhood. At least as much as the hole in the ozone layer and acid rain. Perhaps this wasn't the case in America?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#480

Post by dbspin »

nsokolsky wrote: post #325
postpawl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focusing on the cost-per-tonne for carbon reduction misses the broader value of railways. They're not just about reducing emission! They facilitate daily commutes, expand job opportunities, and help drive the economy. It’s a subsidy for businesses too.

How much of the increased rail use is helping increase GDP, though, rather than being purely leisurely trips with little long term value for the economy? More people going to hike in the forest on the weekend technically increases GDP but doesn't add much value to the economy overall.

I wonder if it's possible that you have the telescope the wrong way around?

People leading more fulfilling and rewarding lives is the point of the economy, not the reverse.

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