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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#311

Post by jahnu »

itqwertz wrote: post #235
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason nobody uses public transit in America is it's always packed with transients or dangerous people. That's a lie told by people who sell fear as a product to people who always want new reasons to live in fear.

I spent years riding public transit in Portland, NYC, Seattle, SF, San Diego, Chicago, and other US cities. I can tell you anecdotally that public transit in the US is dangerous and meant for the poors who don’t have their shit together to level up and commute via car. Ride 8AM and 5PM every workday for a year and tell me that it’s safe when you roll through the bad parts of Long Island/ brooklyn/Queens or the south…

European here. Spent a week in NYC with a 9 month old. Traveled all over 4 of the 5 boroughs and never felt in the slightest threatened. The only major issue was the lack of elevators. Fortunately NYC people are really friendly and helped us with the stroller every time.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#312

Post by netsharc »

eertami wrote: post #276
dreadlordbone wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't having a car do this too?

Anecdotally, I frequently take day (or weekend) trips to other European cities by rail. It is usually quicker than the roads but also crucially you can be productive on the train. If I had to drive my car there then I probably wouldn't bother.

This reminds me of this Swedish office on a train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HbrI3refig , made for a company which had an hour train commute from Stockholm. It's even got 8 telephone line (4 in and 4 out)!

I guess a lot of people would use work booths/conference rooms on trains, but the price/profit has to work for both sides (the train company and users). As for trains, the old-fashioned 6 seater compartments offer more privacy for groups.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#313

Post by alwayslikethis »

k__ wrote: post #120

It's pretty awesome, but it gets more expensive all the time. First it started as 9€ ticket for 3 months. People loved it, and the government talked about doing a permanent 29€ ticket. But now we pay 49€ and it's already planned to become 59€. Really sad, as it isn't affordable for poor people anymore.

For a developed country, 59 EUR is not all that expensive if it helps you get to a job. Having it be too cheap would probably degrade the quality of service for busier routes and make it harder for future projects to pay themselves off.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#314

Post by resonious »

postpawl wrote: post #245
jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

Focusing on the cost-per-tonne for carbon reduction misses the broader value of railways. They're not just about reducing emission! They facilitate daily commutes, expand job opportunities, and help drive the economy. It’s a subsidy for businesses too.

Gp said they know about these other factors but doesn't know how to price them. Do you know a way?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#315

Post by aeyes »

consp wrote: post #43
lispm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn’t this start as unlimited anywhere for 9 euros no strings attached? That was a time limited earlier ticket. "The tickets were valid for June, July, or August 2022. The offer aimed at reducing energy use amid the 2021–2022 global energy crisis." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket It influenced the idea to come up with a permanent ticket: the "Deutschlandticket". It started 1. Mai 2023. https://en.wikip…

> Every pupil has free access to all of the country's local&regional public transport system... I find that kind of mind-blowing. We've had this since the 1990s for higher education students. One of the known effects is that students who got it, used the public transport systems more often after wards as they were more familiar with it. I would not be surprised if Germany has a simmilar effect. The problem with these…

When I started studying at university it was an optional additonal fee paid with the Semesterbeitrag and the ticket was only valid in the city (not even the state) and its close surroundings. A bit later they didn't allow us to opt out anymore but lowered the price a bit.

So for students in my region this was never free and still isn't, you are forced to pay for it and can't opt out: https://www.studentenwerk-leipzig.de/mobilitaet/semestertick...

> Studierende der sieben Leipziger Hochschulen im Zuständigkeitsbereich des Studentenwerkes Leipzig zahlen den Beitrag von 176,40 Euro verpflichtend mit der Immatrikulation bzw. Rückmeldung zum Wintersemester 2024/25.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#316

Post by hagbard_c »

weinzierl wrote: post #258
hagbard_c wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DB Navigator is so terrible that I try to book the German leg of my international travels from one of the other countries apps whenever possible. While DB Navigator does leave something to be desired the sheer width/breadth of the DB booking system makes it my go-to choice for international train travel. They're also quite forthcoming in paying back 25% to 50% of the ticket price when delayed more than 1 or 2 h…

They're also quite forthcoming in paying back 25% to 50% of the ticket price when delayed more than 1 or 2 hours There is nothing forthcoming about that, they are required to to that by regulations. No bonus points for DB here whatsoever. which is a frequent occurrence on the longer trips That is something we can agree upon. reserve seats and sometimes actually choose which seats I want SNCF-Connects lets you specify…

> There is nothing forthcoming about that, they are required to to that by regulations. No bonus points for DB here whatsoever.

The way they implemented this process makes it easy and quick to get compensation while other carriers - who are supposed to follow the same rules - make it quite a bit harder to get compensated.

> SNCF-Connects lets you specify the exact seat configuration. You can choose single, double (window or not), quadruple (next to each other or face-to-face). In addition to that you can express your preference for family area and if you do not want to sit facing against the driving direction.

You can do the same on bahn.de or in DB Navigator (which is mostly equivalent to a canned version of the site plus a few extras). Not all trains allow seat selection, sometimes seats are assigned automatically. Other trains - e.g. Dutch Intercity trains - do not offer reservation at all. The Swedish/Danish Öresundståg (a service running mostly in the south and west of Sweden) theoretically allows reservation but this hardy ever works, at least when booking through DB. Do mind that I use DB to book trips crossing several countries using different operators, in this case SJ (Swedish state railway), Öresundståget, DSB (Danish state railway), DB, Eurobahn and NS (Dutch state railway). All in a single booking with a single payment and a single point of contact using a single ticket.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#317

Post by nisa »

oersted wrote: post #9
server_man3000 wrote: post #2

Didn’t this start as unlimited anywhere for 9 euros no strings attached? I LOVE the German transit system (although Denmark wins in cleanliness). However, Germany is a bit predatory with this new system. You can ONLY purchase this ticket as a subscription model. If you’re a tourist, you must cancel before the 10th of the month or you get auto rebilled. Additionally, there are so many apps that resell the ticket as so…

I don't have the details, but every single time I have heard the mention of Deutsche Bahn in the last few years it has been accompanied by comments of how broken it has become, with constant delays and cancellations, to the point where for many people it is no longer a viable option for commute or for anything where you cannot risk to be up to several hours late. I guess it's all relative. If you come to rely on an e…

Long distance trains are getting more unreliable (ICE, IC) due to repair works on the tracks - regional / local trains are mostly fine (at least in my place here) and I can't remember the last time there was an delay longer than 10 minutes here. However lately I've saw that trains are cancelled due to manpower shortages and due to the nature the local trains are organized (there is a tender and a railway company wins that tender for 5 years with the same rolling stock) peaks in capacity like on the weekend are not dealt with.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#318

Post by Toorkit »

juliangmp wrote: post #40
chairmansteve wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I don't understand why most car owners are so opposed to public transport.

Personally I'm not opposed to public transport, in fact I want to like the railway. I tried. But the German railway is in such a poor state that I never use it. Not for small trips (with regional trains that are covered by my 49€ ticket) and especially not for longer trips (long distance trains like ICEs). Every time you enter an ICE just remember that its a coinflip on whether or not you'll arrive on time to get you…

The Autobahn is like a Mad Max movie nowadays. Turn signal? What's that? I'm just gonna pop into your lane when you're going 50 kph faster than me.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#319

Post by Aerroon »

pkd wrote: post #114
Aerroon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of moral standing or identity but rather that public transport (and vegan) advocates would like to force you to live like they do. Those things gaining too much popularity threatens the way you do things. We have examples of this happening, eg smoking. It has become unpopular enough that governments pass nonsensical bans like banning flavored cigarettes or just making it entirely illegal for only…

> public transport (and vegan) advocates would like to force you to live like they do Is there a citation for this claim? > governments pass nonsensical bans like banning flavored cigarettes Is it nonsensical? There is research[1][2] showing that flavoured tobacco is one of the primary factors used to attract younger users. We know that tobacco is bad, and also that flavoured tobacco increases its usage, so unless yo…

When public health measures turn into "hello, we're now making your life worse" then yes, I am against them.

Imagine you drink coffee your whole life. You rely on it. Now your government comes in and goes "coffee is now illegal, you're welcome!!!"

It changes your life against your wishes and you can't do anything about it. The only action that realistically works is preemptive - don't let coffee become disliked enough to enact such a ban. That's why people argue against it. Principles such as "people should be free to make their own choices" aren't values our society cares about. (Important to remember: it's popular to hate on things everyone else hates on, so you gotta keep it under a critical mass.)

>Is there a citation for this claim?

Asking for a citation doesn't make sense. You know damn well there isn't one. Nobody is going to credibly announce that their goal is to ban something popular, because that would make it harder for them to force that change on you. It's done piece by piece. Maybe the people that start it don't even want a ban, but it eventually escalates.

But logical reasoning can explains it too: people support public transport for climate reasons. Why would they not want you to make 'the right choice' like them?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#320

Post by rawgabbit »

jahnu wrote: post #311
itqwertz wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years riding public transit in Portland, NYC, Seattle, SF, San Diego, Chicago, and other US cities. I can tell you anecdotally that public transit in the US is dangerous and meant for the poors who don’t have their shit together to level up and commute via car. Ride 8AM and 5PM every workday for a year and tell me that it’s safe when you roll through the bad parts of Long Island/ brooklyn/Queens or the south…

European here. Spent a week in NYC with a 9 month old. Traveled all over 4 of the 5 boroughs and never felt in the slightest threatened. The only major issue was the lack of elevators. Fortunately NYC people are really friendly and helped us with the stroller every time.

Maybe you came at the right time?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-deploy-750-nationa...

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/05/02/new-tea...

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