Rust has been forked to the Crab Language • Hacker News Board

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#471

Post by insanitybit » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:16 PM UTC

worksonmine wrote: post #468

insanitybit wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with Firefox policy that led to IceWeasel. Mozilla owns the Firefox Trademark. Someone wanted to avoid that so they created IceWeasel. This is working as intended. There's no controversy, there's no one saying "wow I can't believe Mozilla would own the Firefox trademark !", it's just... how someone wanted to play it. It's incredibly unlikely that this was necessary or actually achieved anything…

The trademark conflicted with the policies of the Debian repositories. Debian is very picky about what goes in the standard repositories.

And that's fine. They removed the trademarked icon and name. This is all as intended.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#472

Post by EyeSayUntoThee » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:19 PM UTC

reaperman wrote: post #121

kaba0 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the majority of Amos (fasterthanlime), Raph Levien, Ashley Williams, Carol Nichols and Steve Klabnik throw their weight behind any fork of Rust But they quite dislike this fork, don’t they?

Ashley Williams comments were sympathetic but unsupportive. I haven’t heard anything from the others. Based on Ashley’s comments, I think the HN community has really overreacted to this story and treated it as something much bigger than it is. Im not sure there’s anyone at all notable involved with the “crab” fork. I haven’t looked into it much though, someone may correct me. Overall though, I’m not sure this is wort…

That's a very short-sighted way to read the room. Doubt has been sown at a critical Rust adoption juncture, and major damage has occurred, and the stench will not simply blow away or only stick with the forkers, it's damaged RUST and The Official Rust People need to wake up and smell some burning coffee, or the dreams of this unique lego just evaporating while you claim it's all a tempest in a teapot. Note: I have no horse in this race other than using Rust and wanting to have a stable unique lego for all things from baremetal to high level, which is here and being threatened by all this nonsense.

HN teapot tempest = something Official Folks better heed, or pay the price for... problem is, this strike is damaging the company, and management thinks it's no big deal...

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#473

Post by predictabl3 » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:23 PM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

If I were in Rust leadership, I would have a very hard time not seeing this as a personal failing and resigning. I'm not privy to any insider information, but this feels like a situation where I'd leave with a lot more respect for involved people if they said "I love Rust, and I need to step down for the sake of trust and the community.". But, much as some would like to imagine technical projects as being above it, PPP gets in the way (personalities, pride, politics).

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#474

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:28 PM UTC

agilob wrote: post #36

coffeeblack wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forking is an essential feature in OSS, its what OSS is all about.

Yes, because it worked out well for Java.

Hum, I don't get what you are saying.

You mean it didn't work well for Oracle when everybody moved to a fork?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#475

Post by shmerl » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:28 PM UTC

And the point of that is?

Huge suspect is that the readme doesn't explain the reason for the fork.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#476

Post by grayhatter » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:29 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #216

codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

Just to get this straight: Did you just say that Stallman, the inventor of free software, is damaging OpenSource?

he is... the free software movement fails without the hearts and minds of developers. Developers are, unfortunately, still humans and will refuse to follow the advice of someone they deem to be a twat. Even if that twat is right, if you can't convince someone free/open source software is better you lose.

Stallman is well known to act like a twat, thus holding him up as the voice of foss will convince people that foss is just a bunch of douche bags. thereby damaging open source.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#477

Post by i_am_a_peasant » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:29 PM UTC

Craab people craaab people. Walk like crab, talk like people. Craaab people.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#478

Post by predictabl3 » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:31 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #192

This fork promises "All of the memory-safe features you love, now with 100% less bureaucracy!" Compelling, until you realise that all the commits are auto-merges of rust-lang/rust's main branch. Which means the same teams doing the same work, under a different name. Rust is experiencing growing pains because they're still figuring out a governance structure that works for everyone. They want to simultaneously keep th…

I normally scoff at controversy-spawned "forks" but I feel like the more important conversation here isn't "Crablang good" or "Crablang will replace Rust" but, (and this is evidenced by Crablang popping back up again today, despite not actually stemming from the most recent controversy), a general, increasing feeling of doubt or mistrust in Rust leadership.

Frankly, much as I love Rust and don't think this will ultimately stop its trajectory... it's really not the first time that folks at Rust have, how do I try to put this nicely, forged their own path and expected people to just deal with it. I still have a rotten taste in my mouth about the website redesign, and the near gaslighting around it.

(completely unsubstantiated, but I can't help wonder if any of this attitude falls over from Mozilla. Some of Firefox's treatment of user preferences and Pocket feel... well, a similar mix of ignorant and arrogant. shout-out to when Firefox had a floppy-disk-"save" icon that auto-uploaded your screenshot to the cloud, absolutely brilliant!!)

EDIT: Welp, sure enough, there's that [one name] again, associated with a vastly unpopular Rust decision, going out and doubly down individually and casting aspersions. What a shame.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#479

Post by giancarlostoro » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:33 PM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

I would like to remind everyone of the time where NodeJS was forked into a more bleeding edge version of Node, and eventually down the line, all the changes were pulled into NodeJS and things were consolidated.

Edit: It was iojs

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8694953

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8669557

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#480

Post by WinstonSmith84 » Tue, May 30, 2023, 8:33 PM UTC

predictabl3 wrote: post #473

weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

If I were in Rust leadership, I would have a very hard time not seeing this as a personal failing and resigning. I'm not privy to any insider information, but this feels like a situation where I'd leave with a lot more respect for involved people if they said "I love Rust, and I need to step down for the sake of trust and the community.". But, much as some would like to imagine technical projects as being above it, P…

Well. If you were in the Rust leadership, with such state of mind as to say "I love Rust, and I need to step down for the sake of trust and the community." I don't think you'd have hired a lawyer to defend the trademark ...