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Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.
Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.
I'm all for the diversity that emerges when you have different libraries and tools that take on the flavor of each group that builds them. But at least establish a common language in which to build that diverse ecosystem.
It's easy when a project is new to adopt one variant and be happy in your little variant bubble, but when that project turns out to live for a while and inevitably has to start working with other projects or tools that rely on one of the other variants - you've got a headache, and life gets hard (and you'll probably start wishing people had just standardized things in the first place!)
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Agree on all points. Something needs to change in the Rust foundation fundamentally. But as far as forks go this one seems quite low effort. Does the tactic work if the other side knows what you’re doing? From Ashley Williams, former founding member of the Rust Foundation (I don’t support her pretentious tone here)[1]: > "I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers," said Williams. "They…
> I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers Ugh. Hate this sentiment that some people are language designers, and others simply aren't . So pretentious. If someone is designing a language they're a language designer, they don't need your approval. And yes, designing the distribution, branding, community, and leadership around a fork of an existing language counts as designing a language…
At some point in the creation of a restaurant one may wish to inquire on the chef leading the kitchen without getting into a debate as to whether the maitre d' is also a chef.
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This is not about code, it's about standards. As long as I don't have to have 2 Rusts to deal with, I'm fine with this, but right now at least the branding isn't supporting that.
If the majority of Amos (fasterthanlime), Raph Levien, Ashley Williams, Carol Nichols and Steve Klabnik throw their weight behind any fork of Rust, then that’s where I’m putting my energy too. I believe they’re hugely responsible for most of the adoption of Rust and have no doubt they’d see continued success anywhere they choose.
But they quite dislike this fork, don’t they?
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> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…
> with his contributions to FOSS It is not as noteworthy as well known his name is. Especially if you count how many have stopped working on open-source projects because of him.
Most of what I've heard about Stallman are social attacks from autistic mean girls with zero self awareness.
Edit: FYI, people have flagged my follow up comment where I address the request for clarification to make it look like there is none. Just turn on showdead in your HN options to see. This is exactly the kind of playbook they love to use. Manipulative, dishonest and pathetic.
Here is a good walk-through of the changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutR_LNoZw0 I don't particularly care about Rust but one of the reasons I've hesitated to learn / use it was because the project seemed like it was led by woke people that pushed politics into the programming space which imo is completely unnecessary. One thing I've learned by experience is that people who push their political agenda into eve…
Politics is everywhere and everything. There is no chance of "keeping politics out of" anything. Making such a decision or rule is highly political too. This goes for sports, entertainment, culture, tech, open source.. The fact that there are "counterexamples" of successful projects that "thrive without involving politics and never had a CoC" isn't an argument to the contrary.
But somehow it is acceptable for programming languages.
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You are implying that the only measure of success for a fork is for it to exist indefinitely. If the goal of io.js was to improve Node's governance model, which appears to be the case, then I would consider it a success.
> Forks of a large project seldom survive. The fork died. that is the point. goal or no goal.
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> I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers Ugh. Hate this sentiment that some people are language designers, and others simply aren't . So pretentious. If someone is designing a language they're a language designer, they don't need your approval. And yes, designing the distribution, branding, community, and leadership around a fork of an existing language counts as designing a language…
It seemed quite pretentious and dismissive to me too. Sorry, didn’t intend to imply I agreed fully with the quote. But there is a deeper point which is part of our root comment: is it a genuine effort or a negotiation tactic?
It is almost deterministic: when collective behavior builds something interesting somebody will try to climb on the building roof to stick out and be seen and somebody else will try to prevent them.
The difference with FOSS is that such individual/community dynamics is out in the open, meticulously documented in git repos, so even a small bit of that behavior creates fireworks.
This isn't really a weakness of the model and it is futile to believe that this type of phenomena could be completely eliminated if we could somehow devise the "perfect code of conduct" or governance.
Hunker down, build good FOSS stuff. This, too, will pass.