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Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

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Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#471

Post by kadoban »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #451
kadoban wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (b) Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that contains any matter defined in s. 847.001, explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, or sexual conduct and that is harmful to minors. That's ambiguous as hell. Give that it's Florida, I'd expect them to have a biased view of what's "harmful" as well. That also rules out several of…

Sure, and as I said ambiguity is a problem. However, 50 shades of gray for elementary schoolers is ALSO a problem.

It's a problem mostly because it has unhealthy romantic relationships in it that aren't examined well.

The sex is largely besides the point. Any kid who wants to has seen things far more graphic on the internet.

What are we protecting kids from exactly? That book would be a problem even if it were rated G.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#472

Post by ldh0011 »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #467
mcv wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Far more important to the development of literacy in children is the presence of books in the home. Of course, but that's not something schools have control over. Unless they can give a child a book on loan to take home. And that requires books in the school. And because different children have different interests and different reading issues, a wide selection of books is better than a narrow one. > That never had…

[flagged]

Best I can tell these new laws apply to all grade levels. What justifiable reason is there for limiting what books high schoolers can access other than "I don't want my kid to come across facts or opinions that might contradict my worldview."

High schoolers are going through puberty and many are sexually active so statutes (s. 847.012) banning "detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement" in books are just puritanical nonsense. That would definitely rule out ASOIAF and probably 1984. I'm pretty sure it would even rule out some young adult novels I read in high school and high schoolers are the target audience.

For lower grade levels I suppose there is maybe a more reasonable argument to be had over what is age appropriate but "felony for unapproved books" seems like a pretty absurd conclusion to reach.

Frankly I don't think I need any cover to demonize parents calling for book bans.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#473

Post by speakfreely »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #304
speakfreely wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that Canadian authoritarianism makes this FL issue any less ridiculous, but since you brought it up, I am kind of amazed that no one in a "modern democracy" (what I thought Canada was aiming for) had any problem with the alarming weaponization of the financial system against anyone who even donated to the trucker protests. In my mind, it was somewhat equivalent to a Republican-controlled US government freezing th…

> Republican-controlled US government freezing the bank accounts of anyone who donated to Planned Parenthood I'm not familiar with this. Searches yield articles about freezing of Planned Parenthood funding. Could you point me in the right direction for more details?

It was an example of something comparable to what the Canadian government did, except with US conservatives as the aggressors.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#474

Post by brightball »

crooked-v wrote: post #458
brightball wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to suggest it’s a good idea, but I know when math books became a topic it was supposedly because some type of political stuff was being included in the problems. Haven’t followed it closely but I do remember hearing that. I’ll see if I can find a link. EDIT: Found one. https://nypost.com/2022/04/22/floridas-banned-math-textbooks...

If very limited references to the fact that racism even exists are "political", then you're getting pretty close to that joke: "What sexual orientation are you, straight, or political?"

What purpose does that serve in math class to teach charts and graphs?

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#475

Post by ldh0011 »

spoils19 wrote: post #462
toomuchtodo wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gov. Ron DeSantis pushed lawmakers to boost starting teacher salaries to $47,500, which ranks 16th in the country. Overall though, Florida’s average teacher pay is ranked 49th.

This is from a source where higher = better, I assume? Otherwise it makes no sense.

Although it isn't clear I'm assuming the explanation of the second ranking omits some information about it taking cost of living into account.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#476

Post by ldh0011 »

agloeregrets wrote: post #67
jackson1442 wrote: post #2

One of the requirements for book approval: > Appropriate for the grade level and age group for which the materials are used or made available If I was in grade school when this happened, this would have hampered my ability to learn. I was generally reading above the standard level and loved reading in class. Reading this post just makes me sad. Kids aren't getting the same opportunities I got to nurture my curiosity.

Additionally, the content of the book has to pass rather insane content rules, including banning any description or implication of homosexuality. Wildly, they branded it as 'Parents rights' as in: "If I don't want my kid to read X...NOBODY's should". The outcome is an attempt to whitewash out topics that are inconvenient to the agenda at play to protect the agenda long term. $5 says it just makes teen pregnancy happe…

According to the article

> The law requires that all library books selected be: > 1. Free of pornography and material prohibited under s. 847.012.

s. 847.012. includes...

> (3) A person may not knowingly sell, rent, or loan for monetary consideration to a minor: > (b) Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that *contains* any matter defined in s. 847.001, ...

s. 847.001 includes numerous definitions (including a rather broad "Sexual content") many of which are devoid of exonerating literary context. I think the implication here is that many popular books like the ASOIAF series, many young adult books that I personally read in high school, and many important classics like 1984, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc. that I don't find at all age-inappropriate for a high schooler would all be banned from school libraries. Unless I'm having some grave misunderstanding here Florida has just made it a felony for a high school lit teacher to loan a student a copy of *1984*.

This is absurd puritanical behavior that frankly this makes me frightened for the US.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#477

Post by cat_plus_plus »

kadoban wrote: post #471
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and as I said ambiguity is a problem. However, 50 shades of gray for elementary schoolers is ALSO a problem.

It's a problem mostly because it has unhealthy romantic relationships in it that aren't examined well. The sex is largely besides the point. Any kid who wants to has seen things far more graphic on the internet. What are we protecting kids from exactly? That book would be a problem even if it were rated G.

Adults providing sexually explicit materials to kids makes it easier for same or other adults doing sexual things to these kids later. A boy sneaking a peek at dad's dirty magazine does not have the same effect, it remains a forbidden fruit. Now obviously Florida politicians have exaggerated the issue to keep their base outraged and showing up to vote, that's what politicians do. But the reason the outrage is easy to whip up is because schools have been ignoring good taste and common sense for desire of some teachers to impose their value system on young generation rather than leaving values largely to each family. And kids suffer because of irresponsibility of both sides.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#478

Post by cratermoon »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #192
cratermoon wrote: post #137

This is a real example of censorship in violation of the first amendment.

It doesn’t violate the 1st amendment because government is allowed to censor their own speech. But certainly it is censorship.

So you're saying teachers give up their first amendment rights on the job?

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#479

Post by ldh0011 »

crooked-v wrote: post #158
acallaghan wrote: post #89

How is this fine, but banning sale of guns not fine in these people's minds?

Banning the sale of guns doesn't hurt the specific out-group they've been conditioned into hating.

And interestingly there's a strong argument to be made that gun control has already been implemented by the conservatives of a different era to hurt a specific out-group people were conditioned into hating at the time.

https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-...

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#480

Post by ldh0011 »

panzagl wrote: post #252
indymike wrote: post #100

Sounds like a scheme to force schools to only buy from specific publishers... dressed up as a social program. This stuff has to stop.

Don't know why you're being downvoted as the role of educational companies seems to be pretty large in the standardization and homogenization of schools and curriculums. Compared to the large publishers most school districts are pretty small fish- they don't have time to ensure compliance with all the regulations and standards, so their only choice is to buy a curriculum from a publisher. And of course buying a curri…

On the subject of political graft and schools, my Florida high school purchased *every single student* a pair of cheap earbuds for a *single* audio question on a standardized test everyone in the school had to take. Probably in 2015 or 2016. Pretty sure some politician was friends with or related to someone who stood to make money off those earbuds...

edit: everyone in my grade at least

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