Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools • Hacker News Board

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#131

Post by loudmax » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #106

lcuff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which for some, (like me), is ludicrous. My own take is that children learn best (or for some, learn at all) when their interest in something is piqued or they are inspired by a teacher. (I only did homework for teachers I liked throughout my time in elementary and high school.) I claim most of what we learn in school is completely irrelevant to our lives anyway (with a clear exception of learning to read at all). My…

> interest in something is piqued or they are inspired by a teacher Don't you see how this is a direct example of teachers having outsized influence on students, and how they shouldn't be allowed to 'teach' them whatever the please? People put education on some kind of pedestal. Like it's a magical place of discovery. No, it's to provide basic literacy and math skills to the poor so they can function in society.

I can't tell whether you're making that argument in earnest, or you left out the /s sarcasm tag.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#132

Post by notch656c » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #112

notch656c wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some books that some segment of voters didn't approve of that certain school libraries were providing. This seems like a backdoor way to stop that while bypassing having to go through controversial school board meetings and/or 1A constitutionality issues to block those books. Not to say this isn't insane, just explaining how I think it happened.

> There were some books that some segment of voters didn't approve of that certain school libraries were providing. I mean, so? This is small minority of people we're talking about. Why do they get veto power over everything present in the classroom? It's the teachers' job to teach the kids, manage/provision the classroom, etc. At some point you have to just tell people "No".

If a law is passed the presumption under democracy is it has the assent of the majority.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of democracy, but you're looking at it.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#133

Post by happytoexplain » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

renlo wrote: post #31

mabbo wrote: post #3

Hey America, is everything okay down there? Y'all have some truly dystopian stuff going on there. Felony prosecution for showing kids books that the Governor didn't approve of? Yikes.

[flagged]

Analogies are often terrible because they just shift the conversation to identifying the differences and similarities in the two sides of the analogy and arguing about their relevance or lack thereof. That may lead somewhere eventually, but probably not, and certainly not efficiently.

A good analogy illustrates a different way of viewing something that not all readers might have considered, rather than simply asserting that two things are equivalent in the given context.

Edit: Also, I am American, so I hope you can curb your European-focused hatred when reading my comment.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#134

Post by hooverd » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #45

yamtaddle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classroom libraries are a big deal. Every step taken that makes a teacher's job riskier, less pleasant, or less like what they want to be doing (teaching kids, without having to worry about whether some plainly-positive action is legal), drives good teachers out of the profession.

What's the difference between a classroom library and the school library? I'm German, I've never heard of classroom libraries or anything similar in Germany. We have school libraries that provide the standard text books and most of the novels etc, but they're generally not walk-ins where you pick something to read.

My English/drama teacher (small school) had one. It was mostly classics, famous theater works, and YA lit. I donated my collection of Discworld books to it after I graduated. It was really just a bookshelf. You could read in class or borrow one, she had a sign out sheet.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#135

Post by agloe_dreams » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #57

Jiro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a very simple argument: The existing system has been used as a workaround by activists to defacto teach things that shouldn't be taught to students. Keeping the books out of the library is the best practical method of stopping this, because directly controlling the contents of the curriculum is hard to enforce. That argument may or may not be true in this particular case, but it's not some impossible…

> The existing system has been used as a workaround by activists to defacto teach things that shouldn't be taught to students. And who determines, with which justification, what should be taught to students? Teaching science and facts should never be something controversial, and I'd expect teachers to be able (and allowed to) make that decision - they know the children under their responsibility the best, not politic…

> Teaching science and facts should never be something controversial

lol. May I introduce you to the right-wing south. They can't even agree on the age of the earth.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#136

Post by jonathankoren » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #28

The problem is that some of the libraries are hosting sexually explicit material that is accessible to younger children that some parents claim is sexually grooming the children. Some of these books have been included on reading lists. The book that is the poster child for this is the cartoon book Gender Queer https://www.westernjournal.com/book-depicting-child-pornogra...

The fact is the VAST majority of these books are not sexually explicit, nor “grooming” in any way. The books simply admit that non-straight people exist.

A much more representative list is https://pen.org/report/banned-usa-growing-movement-to-censor... which tracks the 2021-2022 school year.

Applying this “sexually explicit” logic, then your left saying the network television comedy “Modern Family” is indistinguishable to the director’s cut of “Eyes Wide Shut”.

It’s straight up propaganda, meant to stigmatize non-straights as child predators. It’s not just a lie. It’s hate speech, spread for crass political gain. And it has no place in any society.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#137

Post by cratermoon » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

This is a real example of censorship in violation of the first amendment.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#138

Post by afavour » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

lowken wrote: post #126

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also drives families with kids out of Florida to more sane educational operating environments. Florida already has the worst teacher shortage in the nation: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/22/our-child...

[flagged]

I’m sorry but I question the sanity of anyone that thinks these are actually legitimate questions.

How many Kindergarten libraries do you think have pornography in them? Seriously. What has given you the impression that this is happening? What proof have you been offered?

This is very obviously an attempt to control what kids are allowed to learn from the top down using “pornography” as an excuse.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#139

Post by hooverd » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #118

CydeWeys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me exactly which books are so heinous that having them present in schools merits felony charges?

I am very much against this law but I think "present in school" is much different than "curated." I couldn't give a shit if kids were bringing Anarchist Cookbook and images of the tortures at Abu Dhabi prison to school. What the kid and his family obtain on their own through private means and choose to read in a public venue like a school IMO is none of my business. If the teachers are curating books that disproporti…

No one has yet to name any books.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#140

Post by brightball » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

matmc wrote: post #130

brightball wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to suggest it’s a good idea, but I know when math books became a topic it was supposedly because some type of political stuff was being included in the problems. Haven’t followed it closely but I do remember hearing that. I’ll see if I can find a link. EDIT: Found one. https://nypost.com/2022/04/22/floridas-banned-math-textbooks...

[flagged]

Here’s the same story and same examples from NBC if it helps.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-racist-florida-release...