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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#471

Post by tajustice2 »

ok123456 wrote: post #416
tajustice wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ID laws are inherently racist, and have been leveraged by white supremacists for decades to keep POC from enjoying the rights and privileges they're guaranteed under the law. Businesses requiring vaccination IDs are de facto discriminating against POCs and other minorities because POCs and minorities are less likely to have ID, and less likely to be vaccinated.

The coronavirus doesn't discriminate. Edit: Can't reply to the child since it's dead, but for the record, I got my covid vaccinations at an AME church (i.e., black) back in April. Edit 2: >Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines. No you didn't. > The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to…

Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines.

The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to vaccines, to be vaccinated, and to have IDs. Requiring ID is inherently racist.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#472

Post by tedunangst »

pklausler wrote: post #246
rPlayer6554 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

What's your excuse for avoiding the J&J vaccine?

Not the best argument. Adenovirus vector is possibly less studied than mRNA, with a number of not great failure modes.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#473

Post by bringoutyerdead »

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #342
muhfreedomz wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the name of "security" It's in the name of not spreading a deadly virus, not security with scare quotes.

The mortality rate for younger individuals is very low, and was low prior to a vaccine being available. We are almost 20 months into this pandemic. The virus is definitely more lethal for at risk groups but the lethality for the general population is overblown.

Right, a deadly virus. We're sacrificing the choice to go eat at Denny's unvaccinated to prevent spreading a deadly virus. Not for "sEcUrItY."

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#474

Post by admax88q »

trident5000 wrote: post #258
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're okay requiring masks, and we're okay putting the onus on businesses to enforce that . I'd much rather enforce vaccinations than masks.

Or you could...require neither at this point in time. If you're worried about covid then get the vaccination. For people who want to take a risk, let them do it. I have the vaccine so why do I care if Im around people that have covid? We believe in science right?

You believe in science? Great!

What does the science tell you about the risks to vaccinated individuals when exposed to other vaccinated individuals or to non vaccinated individuals?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#475

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

mrfusion wrote: post #250
ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

It’s not a small stretch to imagine expanding it to all grocery stores. Then if you want to eat you have no choice but to get it. What about denying healthcare for unvaccinated? Another easy step.

That's what was originally announced for the health pass in France before public outcry made them soften the restrictions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#476

Post by ok123456 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #63
ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

It's putting a scarlet letter on these people and shaming them for making their own choice about their own bodies. I think we've determined from other issues that "separate but equal" isn't actually equal. That absolutely applies here.

The Supreme Court said it didn't apply about 116 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#477

Post by kaybe »

timr wrote: post #438
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> Every time I get a head cold, I typically develop a cough that lasts > 3 weeks.

Just a heads-up, that can turn into asthma if you are susceptible. Take care to properly heal every time.

(That'd be 'long cold' I guess. We don't need more of that stuff.)

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#478

Post by [deleted] »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #466
yupper32 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lose all credibility when you bring up the Biden/Harris comments. At the time we were at the point where it was a real possibility that Trump would push out the vaccine regardless of the status of trials, etc. Trump kept saying dates and deadlines for all sorts of things throughout the pandemic that had no basis in reality, to the point that pushing out the vaccine early was a real possibility, just to make him l…

If the vaccine had been rushed under trump it would have been malicious, but if the vaccine is rushed under Biden it's kosher? This is partisan logic and pointing it out doesn't make someone right-wing.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#479

Post by Marsymars »

NonContro wrote: post #286
heavyset_go wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC) According to NYC.gov[1], there have been about 980k cases of COVID in a city with a population of over 8 million. About 12% of the population has had COVID. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.pag...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... Seroprevalence has been measured at 74% for Ultra-Orthodox Jewish populations in the UK. Its not a surprise that ethnic and religious minorities are anti-vaxx - many of them already had COVID. I'm anti-mandatory vaccinations for the same reason, as a COVID survivor. All the evidence is showing that this natural immunity is superior to vaccines, but I'm t…

> All the evidence is showing that this natural immunity is superior to vaccines

Does it? The evidence I've seen indicates that it's robust, but not necessarily superior to vaccines.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#480

Post by ok123456 »

mrfusion wrote: post #259
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

For one thing those are policies that were carefully developed over decades not in a few weeks in the middle of a mass panic. Also those policies usually have religious and medical exemptions.

We didn't get this vaccine out of nothing in 9 months. Every time there was a corona virus scare in the past (i.e., SARS and MERS) there was research into vaccines. After the panic dies down, these got shelved, but they served as a starting point. We've been developing this vaccine on-and-off-again for the past 20 years.
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