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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#461

Post by thehappypm »

afavour wrote: post #128
quaffapint wrote: post #96

I feel for the people that had covid and now they are being lumped in with the unvaccinated if they choose not to get the shot on top of that.

I've seen this objection a few times and I'm really not sure why anyone that had COVID would be all that fussed about getting the shot. We don't know how long antibodies from having already contracted it last for, so why not get the vaccine?

If you've had COVID you are more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, it's just how the immune system reactions. If I knew I'd have 2 bad sick days to take 2 doses of a vaccine that I have already beaten.. meh.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#462

Post by Animats »

OK, but we need to make the vaccine passport thing work better, and fast.

California has

https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/

and I can't get that to recognize that I've been vaccinated. I was vaccinated at Stanford, and their health record system, which I can access online, shows that. But the data didn't make it to the state system. Stanford customer support blames the state. State customer support says "contact your health care provider".

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#463

Post by ok123456 »

benmmurphy wrote: post #118
cududa wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

this is not enforcing vaccination it is denying services based on vaccination status. i think there is a distinction. like what if a state decided to make the franchise dependent on whether your were vaccinated or not in order to 'encourage' people to vaccinate similar to how they are trying to deny people access to indoor dining in order to 'encourage' people to vaccinate. i'm sure that would be challenged under the…

The New York rules are less restrictive than Jacobson v. Massachusetts. Jacobson v. Massachusetts actually forced people to get a smallpox vaccine, this is about getting into Fudruckers and Planet Fitness.

The Supreme Court found, 7-2, that it was not a 14th Amendment civil rights violation to have compulsory vaccination and that police powers extended to protecting public health.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#464

Post by karmelapple »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

> We have absolutely no idea if there are any long term side effects of these vaccines.

By that logic, we have absolutely no idea if there are any long term side effects of COVID-19, and how they might compare to the unknown of the long term side effects of vaccines.

We do know that many COVID-19 patients have had very bad effects over many months (I'm thinking of long COVID here), not to mention the possibility of death. We don't know what it'll be like 5 years from first getting COVID-19, but we know long term problems happen from the virus.

Compare that to what's known about the vaccine: we haven't seen any indication that the vaccine is causing very bad effects over many months in any significantly large percentage of the population.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#465

Post by eruleman »

Buttons840 wrote: post #392
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

My gut feeling is closer to 4. You perceive the government as taking more and more power without ever giving any back. I don't know if this is true, but that is the reason for my instinctual opposition and I haven't overriden it yet.

We're still taking off our shoes at the airport even though it was a "temporary" measure started in 2006.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#466

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

yupper32 wrote: post #456
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

You lose all credibility when you bring up the Biden/Harris comments. At the time we were at the point where it was a real possibility that Trump would push out the vaccine regardless of the status of trials, etc. Trump kept saying dates and deadlines for all sorts of things throughout the pandemic that had no basis in reality, to the point that pushing out the vaccine early was a real possibility, just to make him l…

If the vaccine had been rushed under trump it would have been malicious, but if the vaccine is rushed under Biden it's kosher? This is partisan logic and pointing it out doesn't make someone right-wing.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#467

Post by [deleted] »

colinmhayes wrote: post #452
NonContro wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring that a significant portion of #2 have already got resistance via infection. There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated, apart from padding out the pockets of Big Pharma. With the scale of vaccinations that we already have, COVID is firmly in the realm of influenza in terms of potential future deathtoll. In fact, for much of this year the UK had higher influenza deaths than COVID d…

>There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated False, the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection. It's not a huge difference, but it is absolutely statistically significant.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#468

Post by timr »

sergiomattei wrote: post #446
timr wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long edudcation, and a deep understanding of the data. Where's the data? I didn't see a single source listed, just anecdotes from you and your family.

Where's the data in the OP's comment? Remarkable how fear and speculation has a lower evidentiary standard, isn't it?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#469

Post by trhway »

rubicon33 wrote: post #405
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID.

vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand.

Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of...

"About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated, according to new data published Friday by the CDC.

The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people. "

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#470

Post by Alupis »

hunter2_ wrote: post #450
Alupis wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your children don't need to go to a public school, or daycare. You can home school if you're so opposed to these things. What alternative do I have for going to the beach - and outdoor space? What alternative does the private gym owner/operator have? These steps are not the same as your examples.

I was thinking about these categories with the opposite approach: we need a safe way [to educate people without the burden of home schooling] way more than we need a safe way [to eat/exercise without the burden of doing so at home].

At this point in time, children have experienced an infection rate, and complications that are near zero, statistically. To date, no child has received a vaccination.

Why would we punish the vaccinated, and children, for a minority unvaccinated population? A population that largely (entirely?) puts their own self at risk and no other individual that has taken steps to protect themselves from the virus.

Vaccines (in the US at least) are free to anyone that wants one at this point. It's been that way for months. If someone doesn't have a vaccine, it's because they chose to not get one - and therefore take on the risk of becoming ill or death. That's their problem... not children's problem or vaccinated people's problem.

We're doing all this to protect a population that's actively resisting your protection.

With all that said, let's get back to normal here. People who don't want vaccines aren't going to get them even if you made it the law... be realistic.

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