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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#471

Post by npsimons »

swebs wrote: post #441
permo-w wrote: post #325

I’m starting to think that this could actually be good news for left-leaning people. It’s entirely possible that separated from the people they usually fight against, and isolated in their own platform, conservative voices, people who have made careers out of rhetorical conflict, will begin to fight among themselves. and this can only benefit the left. It’s also very possible that Parler will only go uncensored for s…

You're thinking in an us-vs-them mentality. Really, we should be working towards a community where people can respect differing opinions, and not just a bunch of isolated sites full of extremists on either side.

> Really, we should be working towards a community where people can respect differing opinions

I agree, but there is a difference between an opinion and disinformation. FFS, masks have been made political, and only one group is doing that. Before that it was AGW, before that it was evolution. I don't know about you, but I've recognized a pattern and quite frankly have zero interest in "respecting" it.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#472

Post by overkill28 »

calinet6 wrote: post #431
motohagiography wrote: post #422

This is how the internet is supposed to work. Encounters damage, routes around it. Censorship is damage, and people are routing around it. As someone who never engaged with FB/Twitter from the beginning because I thought they were terrible ideas (all the rules, risks, and challenges of elite-level competition with none of the benefits), I was very glad to read this because this kind of divergence is precisely what cr…

I see it as the opposite: this may be how a technical network is supposed to work, but it's not how a society is supposed to work. The internet has created the ability for any given subculture to discover instant validation and reinforce their beliefs into a tribe, which further solidifies and extremifies those beliefs. It's a psychological power almost equivalent to a nuclear reaction: beliefs and ideas that might h…

I wonder if instead of it being a technical solution it will be a social one. That maybe in the future we will look at people constantly hooked on their phones and posting on social media the way we now look at smoking.

E.g where it was once totally normal to light up a cigarette in the elevator, the subway, the theater, etc, it is now acceptable to spend every moment of down time staring at your phone, scrolling.

If there is wider recognition of the negative (mental) health effects of that it will be less acceptable to do it in public, and less acceptable to espouse views or information learned from such a source.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#473

Post by rangoon626 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #118

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

I had the same experience that leads me to delete my account entirely.

You have to see it for what it is: An online digital slot machine. The stakes are, well your time and your life. And just like in real life, the house always wins.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#474

Post by thinkingemote »

_zhqs wrote: post #466
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #382

There's a lot of mistaken assumptions and misinformation here about Parler; it looks like most of the commenters haven't actually used it, or have only given it a cursory glance. To wit: 1. Parler is actively recruiting liberals and moderates, to build a "big tent" of diverse opinions and perspectives. 2. The moderation guidelines are quite explicit: don't censor anyone for expressing a political opinion of any sort.…

I hope the following is helpful. > actively recruiting liberals and moderates, to build a "big tent" of diverse opinions and perspectives I wonder what the selling point is? On the Parler "Values" page I see this: "Regardless of race, sex, age, sexual preference, religion, politics, or dietary choices —- well , except pineapple pizza -- every user is treated equally under Parler’s Community Guidelines." Using the phr…

Someone must have good ears to hear dog whistles and good eyes to find the things they expect.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#475

Post by mjfl »

calinet6 wrote: post #465
mjfl wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you are recommending is that we prevent people from escaping censorship - is that right?

No. I'm saying that censorship isn't the long-term solution here, because it's untenable from a human rights perspective as well as simply a functional perspective (people don't like it). We'll need to find something better, but it's difficult to imagine what shape that'll take at this point.

then I would say your vision is incoherent since you obviously aren't for small pockets "absolute free speech" but aren't willing to commit yourself to controlling speech ubiquitously which would be necessary to prevent the former.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#476

Post by perardi »

troughway wrote: post #467
torben-friis wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s entirely possible that separated from the people they usually fight against, and isolated in their own platform, conservative voices, people who have made careers out of rhetorical conflict, will begin to fight among themselves. The same is true for the left, isn't it? this will just increase the social bubbles we live in. Now instead of different recommendations and content shown in an app, you've got a diffe…

It's already been happening, with Glenn Greenwald, Matthew Yglesias, Taibbi and others leaving their respective companies because they can't stand the bullshit rhetoric anymore. "The left eating itself" is a trope that goes back a number of years to JRE and others. What a platform like Parler does is that it gives a voice to "the right" and unites it, regardless of whether they are stoking the flames of conspiracy, o…

Minor correction: Matthew Yglesias left Vox, not Ezra Klein.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#477

Post by golemotron »

Kye wrote: post #348
dustinmoris wrote: post #118

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

I had to accept recently that anything trying to emulate Twitter will suffer from the same problems. I wrote about it: https://kyefox.com/2020/09/17/mastodon-shows-its-stripes/ Since then, my favorite instance was killed by a bunch of irony-poisoned instances ganging up on it to convince others it was a toxic hell (projection!) and defederate from it. The instance was basically dead within a week as people migrated o…

You might like this. Same problem identified before big social: https://www.gwern.net/docs/technology/2005-shirky-agroupisit...

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#478

Post by pjc50 »

Veen wrote: post #393
pjc50 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is those things, but it's not explicitly pro violence, it's anti racist, and it's not based on lies or misrepresentation. In each case the inciting incidents actually happened and in many we have footage. I think many on the right under estimate how much slack the right really do get from Twitter and YouTube. Refusing to ban bannon after he called for the execution of the FBI director (does that count as ant…

> it's not based on lies or misrepresentation. In each case the inciting incidents actually happened and in many we have footage. To play devil's advocate a little: BLM's ideology (the core activists, not the average supporter) is based on a specific view of anti-racism — critical race theory. CRT is not the only way to think about race, and many would argue it's a bad way to think about it: it's illiberal, divisive,…

> could be argued that the CRT is a huge misrepresentation

All I've heard of CRT has been misrepresentation by its opponents. I'm not sure what actual proponents say about it.

The problem goes further than the police into the prosecutors, too. Hence the refusal to prosecute in cases of murder by police of black people.

> make every one of them take the knee

This is not what is being asked for and itself is a common misrepresentation.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#479

Post by nradov »

calinet6 wrote: post #431
motohagiography wrote: post #422

This is how the internet is supposed to work. Encounters damage, routes around it. Censorship is damage, and people are routing around it. As someone who never engaged with FB/Twitter from the beginning because I thought they were terrible ideas (all the rules, risks, and challenges of elite-level competition with none of the benefits), I was very glad to read this because this kind of divergence is precisely what cr…

I see it as the opposite: this may be how a technical network is supposed to work, but it's not how a society is supposed to work. The internet has created the ability for any given subculture to discover instant validation and reinforce their beliefs into a tribe, which further solidifies and extremifies those beliefs. It's a psychological power almost equivalent to a nuclear reaction: beliefs and ideas that might h…

The long term solution might lie in educational technology. Can we find scalable ways to teach children critical thinking, epistemology, and metacognition?

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#480

Post by leppr »

calinet6 wrote: post #431
motohagiography wrote: post #422

This is how the internet is supposed to work. Encounters damage, routes around it. Censorship is damage, and people are routing around it. As someone who never engaged with FB/Twitter from the beginning because I thought they were terrible ideas (all the rules, risks, and challenges of elite-level competition with none of the benefits), I was very glad to read this because this kind of divergence is precisely what cr…

I see it as the opposite: this may be how a technical network is supposed to work, but it's not how a society is supposed to work. The internet has created the ability for any given subculture to discover instant validation and reinforce their beliefs into a tribe, which further solidifies and extremifies those beliefs. It's a psychological power almost equivalent to a nuclear reaction: beliefs and ideas that might h…

Censorship is the last-resort solution. Ideally, you'd want to have control over people's education and social structures to prevent deviation before any censorship is even needed.

It's a real shame, because it seems we had reached a peak with the advent of mandatory state school and television. Now things are going downhill with more and more diverse subcultures allowed to build upon themselves and explore the limits and avenues for improvement in their ideas.

There has to be a way to keep people in line with our society's values while still giving them an impression of freedom.

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