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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#471

Post by stbtrax »

tw600040 wrote: post #463
curiousllama wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions counselors aren't arbitrating a match, they're predicting success and shaping an environment. Who's going to be more successful: someone tutored, mentored, and cajoled to a 1500 SAT or someone who never had sh*t and got a 1450 cold?

//Who's going to be more successful: someone tutored, mentored, and cajoled to a 1500 SAT or someone who never had sh t and got a 1450 cold? Yeah, so who should be given gold in olympics? someone who was trained and mentored and finished first or someone who never had sh t and ran slower?

Your analogy doesn't follow GP's logic. It's more like: do you want to watch olympics where rich kids with sports coaches do mediocre to well, or do you want to watch an Olympics where a state-sponsored scholarship program gives you the best of the best amongst poor/middle-class/rich people because talent is not distributed only amongst the rich.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#472

Post by tomrod »

curiousllama wrote: post #442
tw600040 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. So who should win the 100 m olympics? someone who is fastest or someone who was discriminated against? Which team should win the football match? the team that scores the most points or should the background of the players be a criteria?

Admissions counselors aren't arbitrating a match, they're predicting success and shaping an environment. Who's going to be more successful: someone tutored, mentored, and cajoled to a 1500 SAT or someone who never had sh*t and got a 1450 cold?

Insufficient information to determine an answer.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#473

Post by raincom »

technofiend wrote: post #470
lowend wrote: post #214

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…

I once asked a co-worker if he felt caste ever impacted him in any way. He said well when I went to the local visa office in India the officer behind the desk approving visas had a certain surname. Only 25 people a day are approved for a Visa and except for me, everyone else in the room had that officer's surname.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Does an Indian national approve visas for Non-Indian countries in the consulates of other countries? Which country's visa is that?

Does Canada allow an Indian national to approve visa applications?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#474

Post by User23 »

jerzyt wrote: post #45

What's shocking is that this caste system is being continued in the US. US is oblivious to this system, very few people have any understanding of this, yet it affects success in the corporate world. Obviously, there's enough Indian presence in the business to influence it, but it's flying under the US corporate culture. I've worked with many Indian coworkers in the tech industry, and now I'm rethinking some of the co…

I think more Americans notice than you think. We just keep our mouths shut because there is absolutely no upside to saying anything.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#475

Post by CobrastanJorji »

macintux wrote: post #236
heavyset_go wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They often think of themselves as having come from humble backgrounds and 'made it' in society all on their own. The number of people I've run into that claim this, but their parents paid their rent, or bought them a house, or they work for their family's company, is staggering. It's a common blind spot for upper middle class and rich people.

Reminds me of a U.S. politician whose advice to students struggling with finding jobs in a recession was to borrow money from their parents to start a business.

That was Mitt Romney in 2012. "We’ve always encouraged young people: Take a shot, go for it, take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents, start a business."

Romney's father was CEO of American Motors and the governor of Michigan.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#476

Post by vmurthy »

A bit strange to see this headline. The headline makes it seem like there is some way that the US has a bias for "upper-caste" Indians which is a bit ridiculous. Indeed, the headline should have read "Defamation case finds caste-based discrimination of Indian by fellow Indian(s)".

One way to look at the apparent disparity in numbers taking caste out of the equation :

-People motivated to be in the US apply for GRE/GMAT , pursue higher education in the US and get employed there. For socio-economic reasons, this might well be upper caste and there are things that the Indian government can do to bring in a semblance of equal opportunities

-People perform well (nothing to do with caste here) and get recognised by businesses and are sent to the US to work there. There's a chance that these are motivated by things other than talent but up to companies to make the evaluation as objective as possible.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#477

Post by robocat »

dcolkitt wrote: post #306
barry-cotter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's shocking is that this caste system is being continued in the US. There are no overseas communities of majority Indian subcontinental origin that maintain rigid caste distinctions. Not even Mauritius which is majority ethnic Indian or Fiji or Guyana where they’re about half the population. Caste will not be maintained in America for the same reason no ethnic group maintains itself without religious endogamy o…

I think a counterpoint to this view is that Englishmen with Norman last names still make more money than average.[1] Despite the fact that the British regime hasn't discriminated along the Norman-Saxon divide since the 1300s. I doubt if the average English person today is really even consciously aware of the Anglo-Normans being higher class. Certainly there's no easily visible divide or overt discrimination in modern…

Same same but different “The richest families in Florence in 1427 are still the richest families in Florence”: https://qz.com/694340/the-richest-families-in-florence-in-14...

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#478

Post by op03 »

yumraj wrote: post #469
lowend wrote: post #214

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…

> 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) Of course Reservation IS the problem if you're unfortunate to be an upper caste. The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias, it amplified it. More and more castes, outside the original designation, demanded it in exchange for votes, and more and more upper caste Indians felt cheated as they lost limited opportunities that should…

Maybe true, but if you use that as a reason to harass an underlying, you will get fired if you work for me.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#479

Post by Barrin92 »

vmurthy wrote: post #476

A bit strange to see this headline. The headline makes it seem like there is some way that the US has a bias for "upper-caste" Indians which is a bit ridiculous. Indeed, the headline should have read "Defamation case finds caste-based discrimination of Indian by fellow Indian(s)". One way to look at the apparent disparity in numbers taking caste out of the equation : -People motivated to be in the US apply for GRE/GM…

>there is some way that the US has a bias for "upper-caste" Indians which is a bit ridiculous

Caste discirimination has already crept into American firms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/opinion/caste-cisco-india...

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#480

Post by ma2rten »

sharadov wrote: post #301
gonehome wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These same arguments are made about race in the US too. In fact, I think looking at both through the lens of caste is a better way to interrogate some of the issues. I thought this podcast made that point in a pretty compelling way: https://cafe.com/stay-tuned/americas-caste-system-with-isabe...

Interesting, I'll check it out. The caste system in India was originally based on profession, and people could move around freely between "castes" , at some point it was co-opted by assholes for their benefit.

I have been studding Buddhist scriptures and I don't think this true. The following quote is from 2,500 years ago:

[The] brahmins say: ‘Only brahmins are the highest caste; other castes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light caste; other castes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are Brahmā’s rightful sons, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā.

https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato#dn27:4.13

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