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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#211

Post by heavyset_go »

rvn1045 wrote: post #92

The lack of self awareness amongst upper caste Indians in India and abroad is interesting to witness. They often think of themselves as having come from humble backgrounds and 'made it' in society all on their own. Not realizing that the vast majority of Indians in India live in abject poverty without any meaningful access to basic education and other amenities. Upper caste Indians are more likely to have access to b…

> They often think of themselves as having come from humble backgrounds and 'made it' in society all on their own.

The number of people I've run into that claim this, but their parents paid their rent, or bought them a house, or they work for their family's company, is staggering. It's a common blind spot for upper middle class and rich people.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#212

Post by rtx »

cvhashim wrote: post #153
reactspa wrote: post #90

A personal anecdote about caste in India: I had to move to Chennai to work there some years ago. As I went around looking for an apartment to rent, I was openly told by several Brahmin homeowners that they weren't going to rent to me because I wasn't a Brahmin. The Brahmins have destroyed India. (I'm from one of the "upper castes" myself.)

Can the Brahmin/Upper caste just create their own country? Probably sounds ridiculous.

Do you want to chase them out like the Kashmiris did?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#213

Post by adjkant »

notacoward wrote: post #133
_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

Everything you say rings very true to me. Most Indians are very reluctant to talk about this. Of several that became friends when I worked with a team in BLR, only one became close enough that we could discuss it. He himself was from one of the very highest sub-castes (which he taught me was trivially knowable from his surname) but very enlightened. I was shocked to discover that all but two or three out of about fif…

Brahmin is the highest caste in said system, nothing too complex at face value.

https://www.swindia.us/the-caste-system-of-india/

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#214

Post by lowend »

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming:

1. This is due to a few bad apples

2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not)

3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist

I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't give away my caste either. I don't broadcast it or even like to talk about it because growing up I experienced innumerable instances where people's behaviors instantly changed when they found out. Some mild, some extreme but it was there.

I grew up in a metro so this isn't a backward ass village. My college fucking put the caste next to people's names on notice boards for things like seating arrangements for an exam. How the fuck is a person's caste relevant? This is normal for you?

Even in the US, people casually either slip in sentences or assume castes and speak as such. Fortunately, there are plenty of people (regardless of their caste - I never ask/care) that feel the same way. Funny enough, the people who care about caste also seem to be racially biased in my anecdotal experience. :|

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#215

Post by [deleted] »

magicalhippo wrote: post #180
_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

I'm Norwegian, living there. A very good friend is Indian, her parents moved here while she was just a few years old. I never heard her talk about her caste, or the system in general really. That is, until one day, out of the blue, she said she was getting married. Her parents had found a boy who also grew up here in Norway that she was to marry the following year. After a bit of talking it was clear she was not very…

[deleted]

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#217

Post by zapdrive »

This is an alarmist piece of shit written by someone trying to push a propaganda. Living in India, I can tell you who is the much much much marginalized group today: poor "upper caste" families. The lower castes have reservations (quotas) almost everywhere, from educational institutions to govt job, to elected representatives. They don't even have to pay any fees (at least in the state where I grew up: Punjab). The poor upper caste families have the worst of everything: lack of money AND lack of opportunity.

Case in point: one of my father's classmates from college, who belongs to a lower caste, got a very high ranking IAS (Indian Administrative Services) govt job due to the above mentioned reservation. He was at a time the second most powerful bureaucrat in the state. His kids got educated in the best schools and got the best tuitions and still got admission in a med school using their reservation. Now compare that to one of my really hard working "high caste" cousin who lives in village, is poor, did not have the privelege of a good education, wanted to be a doctor but could not get admission into med school because he did not have any "quotas". So now tell me with a straight face that the "lower caste" are most marginalized TODAY. I'm not talking about 50-100 years ago. I'm talking about TODAY.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#218

Post by heavyset_go »

buran77 wrote: post #111
mcv wrote: post #103

My dad recently told me how during the 1980s they had two Indians working together on a project. Turns out one of them was upper-caste, and the other lower-caste, and the upper-caste basically refused. Was impossible to work with, because he was offended that he had to work with a lower-caste person. If this attitude discrimination of Dalits by upper-castes is really so common in non-Indian companies, it sounds like…

I saw the situation a bit differently, the upper caste guys would have no problem working with the lower caste ones simply because this meant they never had to work. They would pawn off all the work on the others and order them around. And if I tried to force any work on them it just backfired since they just shoved it down the throats of their "slaves". Even trying to embarrass them in a meeting didn't work. With al…

> I found this as some of the most disgusting behavior I have ever witnessed in a place of work.

I've, unfortunately, witnessed this as well in school and in the workplace.

> They simply (and sincerely) could not acknowledge why someone would phrase as a criticism something that for them is so naturally correct.

This, again unfortunately, is spot on. When called out on such discriminatory behavior, their attitude was that it was rude of the person who called the toxic behavior out to even point it out in the first place.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#219

Post by andi999 »

triceratops wrote: post #146
anu7df wrote: post #114

Ok.. I am going to be brave and not going to use a throwaway. I find it perplexing that HN crowd who is usually arguing for a balanced analysis and seeing both viewpoints is suddenly behaving as if this data proves some injustice is currently happening in India as well as US (in the context of Indian caste system). To be clear, India has/had a caste system that was extremely oppressive. Currently though, the social a…

> It is common for affirmative action students to not do very well there. Do you have any data at all for this? > Then it is not a stretch to imagine that some of them may not be very good at their job either. It's not right to assume that someone may not be good at their current job because they may (in your mind) have benefited from some "affirmative action" program far in the past (John Doe is 20+ years into his c…

It would be great but surprising if it were the other way. If you have difficult entry examinations but allow any group with lower marks to enter, then (if the exam is not fully detached from the requirements of the course) this group is likely to do worse. The skills and knowledge you build on mattet usually.

I think the only way to really have affirmative action is to give extra high qualoty training to the group you want to help starting 2 years before the entrance examination. (and no extra points then)

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#220

Post by covfefeblack »

flowerlad wrote: post #199

There are some areas of India, such as Bihar, where 40% of the populace cannot even read or write, let alone be educated. Such areas tend to be socially backward. Other areas are not that backward. Yes, the ancient caste system still exists in India, in the backward areas. But in other areas it is only relevant when it comes to politics, mainly. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/opinion/sunday/caste-is-no...

Is there anyone on this thread who believes this is not good behavior or that the perpetrator should not be punished? I'm all for exposing systemic injustice.. but I don't know how a post about a shitty human being in a company with abysmal hr practices turns into a thread about how terrible Indians are and a kind of weird racism..
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