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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#471

Post by ahoyleo »

baybal2 wrote: post #304
missosoup wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

FYI: Big Bang Theory is banned in China

Nope. First search result on Baidu leads to this:

http://tv.sohu.com/s2018/dsjshdbzdsyji/

tv.sohu is one of the largest streaming sites in China.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#472

Post by oiunqorucwonieu »

missosoup wrote: post #268
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

> I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels.

I know nothing about your history, but usually moving to a new country means you are now an immigrant and by definition have less privilege than before, even if you can't immediately notice it.

Another hypothesis is that you left an elitist good school in russia and joined a not-so elite school in Australia. You could have done the same in Russia just by moving to a slightly cheaper neighborhood. Confirming the parent poster you were replying to.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#473

Post by lxnn »

gambiting wrote: post #313
missosoup wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

Not the same, but I went from the Polish education system to a British university, and it also felt like it was a massive downgrade. What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". It basically meant that on a CS course, they teach you basic level maths, basic programming skills, you spend the entire 1st year of university learning what we learnt in…

Yes. It is odd that in the British system at age 16 you can choose to study mathematics and physics and literally nothing else. (I blame this for my poor history knowledge.)

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#474

Post by Avamander »

ozim wrote: post #417
_0ffh wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, if you let people who do not want to waste time (and tuition fees!) on repeating basic stuff skip ahead.

If those people who do not waste time are so smart why they have to be hold by the hand and given curriculum? (tuition fees you can count as means for getting a diploma, but also if someone is soo smart, why does he need a diploma anyway?) What I imagine really smart person would do is: go to people giving the course for additional work or talk with them to show where they are at. Skip classes, read something else wh…

> go to people giving the course for additional work

Always seems to be the solution. It doesn't scale, even if you know how to make a PCB or a cupboard (for example), it doesn't take 0 time. That extra work would be extra time spent, which is nonsense if the goal is to demonstrate competency and reduce wasting time.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#475

Post by TomMarius »

de_watcher wrote: post #465
emteycz wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a kid from a post-communist state. What I saw was that abused children had it very rough even though they were very bright, and the lazy smarts generally had perfect conditions at home with loving parents ready to help at any time - and I don't mean with homework itself. You wouldn't believe what sense of not being loved and stress does to a child. > the socioeconomical situation is exactly the same (because com…

The "social capital" was based on the proximity to the ruling minority. The power was greatly centralized so there weren't many of those type of families. Majority had all same: same stuff like photocopied all over the place. About the beatings: it's more about the Russian culture, it's even kinda normal for the husband-wife relationships in some regions. To the West there was less of it.

> The "social capital" was based on the proximity to the ruling minority. The power was greatly centralized so there weren't many of those type of families. Majority had all same: same stuff like photocopied all over the place.

Sounds like something from a school history textbook. It was way more complicated than that; the "ruling minority" or proximity to it was nearly irrelevant to most people (and also a direct threat - you stayed away from these people and their 'friends' as much as you could), what mattered more was your street's communist committee, the teachers at schools, if you wanted to have nicer (or any at all) stuff, then you had to know the shopkeepers, if you wanted your child to go to a high school, you had to know the principal, if you wanted your child to go to university, then the whole family had to have a clean and pro-communist record, if you wanted to visit a doctor, you had to know them or bring something (not necessarily money - money was not that useful), if you wanted to have a okay-ish workplace then... (I could go on forever)

In my previous comments, I was talking mainly about the 90's and early 00's - post-communism. I'm also not a Russian, I'm as west as communism got.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#476

Post by nervousvarun »

superfx wrote: post #464
nervousvarun wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that way anymore. That's even "propagated" to movies (see the scene in 21 Jump Street where they go back to high school and unsuccessfully try to persecute smart kids). But as an American someone in their mid-40s...can anecdotally say it was definitely true in the 80s-90s. It's a senseless/strange phenomenon that definitely existed but seems to have naturally died off. Guessing it's related to the increasing…

Would you mind linking to the 21 Jump Street scene? I'm very curious. As an American nerd in my late 30s, I definitely recall being relentlessly teased as a kid. I don't have kids of my own now and so I don't really know how and if things have changed, but if true this would be a very positive development!

Not sure I can link it but I can definitely describe it. To be clear I'm referring to the 2012 film not the original show. The scene though is sortof referencing the original series because if memory serves it was sortof how they would have done "high school undercover" in the 80s.

Basically the adult cops undercover as high school students try to make a first day impression and they sortof trash academics and try to intimidate kids interested in studying etc. So they try to be stereotypical 80s/90s popular kids. It spectacularly backfires and they have to change their approach. It's actually a surprisingly insightful scene in the context of this discussion.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#477

Post by rpiguy »

The classic answer to this question is that "math was cheap."

The Soviet Union was comparatively poor to the United States, so you create advantages where you can for the least investment. Math and national security are closely linked, aerodynamics, radio communication/RADAR, encryptions, etc. investment in rigor payed them dividends.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#478

Post by golergka »

roveo wrote: post #359
golergka wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Went to #548 from elementary to middle, tried to transfer to #57 but failed interviews (I think I went up to round 8), spent one year at #1523 and then successfully got into #57 the next year. I think that I was very lucky to get in and it was the most valuable part of my overall education. It taught me many things. That there are other people who are much smarter than me and it's OK (and may be I'm not smart enough…

Ha-ha, the #57 mafia is freakin everywhere, now I even meet you guys in HN comments :)

I suspect that there's much more of us here in the comments in general than you would recognize. As well as all other post-soviet math-schoolers. It's exactly the kind of education and attitude that makes a career of a senior engineer at FAANG or CTO at a VC-backed startup not only easy in a technical sense, but also a perfect cultural fit.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#479

Post by throw1234651234 »

p1esk wrote: post #190
to1y wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 28. We emigrated to Australia(from Russia) when I was in approximately grade 3-4. I basically did no mathematical study for 4-5 years, the system was that far ahead. From family in Russia I hear that ridiculous amounts of homework(2hrs daily if you're on top of everything) is still a thing for young children although there's all sorts of strange pro-putin insertions in the curriculum but ultimately I don't know,…

I'm not entirely sure where the above commenter gets their information from or if they're being entirely honest You left Russia when you were 10, so you were basically a child. Then you "heard from family" something you've never actually experienced. On the other hand, I was there in Soviet Union/Russia going through all 10 grades in three different schools, and then getting my masters in engineering, while tutoring…

I think we are just saying that you had an uncommon experience. Were you in a small town by any chance?

Also, going back to the parent's post: "it seems like Russia as a whole has very quickly lost the few positives the Soviet Union brought"

Right, kind of tragic.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#480

Post by rb808 »

rimliu wrote: post #220
rb808 wrote: post #69

The real question should be is why are US textbooks so hard when most people never need HS math after finishing school, and lack so many other skills that are never taught.

Unless you count thinking as an important skill. It alway baffles me when I see "why don't they teach how to do taxes?". Well they do teach you how to read and hiw to do maths? How hard it is the to put 2 and 2 together?

Thinking is an important skill, which is why scientific experiments, essay writing and philosophy are so important. Integrating equations, not important.
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