Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 821 posts

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#471

Post by ilaksh »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

Libra is not a cryptocurrency. It's a private payment system integrated into a global tech monopoly ecosystem masquerading as a cryptocurrency.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#473

Post by clarkmoody »

gjulianm wrote: post #417
justinzollars wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rephrase this to say, in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual. The distinction is this: No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. : )

> No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. Don't be naive. - In order to make a choice, you need to be properly informed. Now, most people won't have the time or interest to see what Libra is and what the consequences of widespread Libra adoption would be. - Facebook can force a sector of their paying users (mainly advertisers) to use Libra. - Facebook also has a lot of influence, most people use at lea…

> You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy.

And the track record of public, non-profit entities controlling monetary policy is ... great?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#474

Post by Spearchucker »

bko wrote: post #431
mokus wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are backed (edit: created and fully controlled) by a foreign company with 2.4 billion active users and extremely questionable privacy track record?

As another commenter noted Facebook does not control it. But you're right that the token is backed by something, mainly one to one reserves of currencies and government bonds. So you're okay with bitcoin, that has a market cap of over $100bn that's backed by nothing, but someone creates a cryptocurrency that's backed by one to one reserves of the safest investments in the world and that's somehow extremely questionab…

It's not questionable at all. It's undesirable.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#475

Post by buboard »

akie wrote: post #396
buboard wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, Germany generally also controls the Euro for the so called PIIGS countries. For all intents and purposes the euro is just as much as an externally-controlled entity as the Libra.

Oh come on, you’re being (deliberately?) quite liberal with the truth here.

Maybe not "imposes" , it's voluntary participation. But there is no easy , not even intermediate route out of the Euro. And as money, it's not much different from a hard currency you can't control for countries that can't catch up with the developed economies of the north.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#476

Post by sailfast »

downandout wrote: post #407
burlesona wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legally tricky to be anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook, but I don't think it's morally tricky. The entire idea of anti-trust (and frankly, the premise of most western democracies) is to prevent the over-concentration of power. Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non…

Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. This is hyperbole at best. Facebook does not have an army, weapons, or literally anyone that would be willing to die or even be physically put out to defend it. I’m no Facebook fan, but let’s not let Facebook hysteria overrun these comments.

One could argue they have a higher GDP and population than most countries right now (all depends how you measure “power”) but I’m with you: if it went down tomorrow, I’m not sure what the world would actually be losing, nobody would die, and the world would keep spinning.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#477

Post by [deleted] »

tgv wrote: post #356
paulcarroty wrote: post #347

Typical government don't want: * easy cross-country payments * non-government money institutions 'Cause money always been the major element of government power. For typical people, I think, Libra and similar are more positive. If you can pay someone in Africa from Japan with minimal fees/headache, it's very cool.

Until Zuckerberg changes his mind, or something else happens. Then it's back to bitching about governments failing to protect your rights. Money is power, as you imply, and I don't want any of it in Zuckerberg's hands.

[deleted]

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#478

Post by HashThis »

bobthepanda wrote: post #247
HashThis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... no peg to anything they do. Libra is still a problem. They start with a basket of USD + Yen + EURs to start. This appeases governments, just for the reason you mention "based on their currences". ...but Libra is designs that they can move away from them over time. It can move to revenue generating investments, like corporate bonds (like money markets do). Libra can then wait until closer to countries defaulting…

What would the assets generate revenue based on? If it‘s fiat currencies you still have exposure, if it‘s Libra you run the risk of currency panic and it‘s not dissimilar to a fiat currency panic except there‘s nothing really available to stop precipitous economic effects.

Right now, they don't generate revenue when the basket is only: USD + Yen + Euros.

But it is designed so they can switch those out for Gov bonds, corporate bonds, real estate (REITs), etc.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#479

Post by gjulianm »

clarkmoody wrote: post #473
gjulianm wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. Don't be naive. - In order to make a choice, you need to be properly informed. Now, most people won't have the time or interest to see what Libra is and what the consequences of widespread Libra adoption would be. - Facebook can force a sector of their paying users (mainly advertisers) to use Libra. - Facebook also has a lot of influence, most people use at lea…

> You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy. And the track record of public, non-profit entities controlling monetary policy is ... great?

Nothing indicates that Facebook would have a better track record in controlling monetary policy (which is admittedly pretty hard), and at least central banks are under clear regulations and guidelines.

Furthermore, Libra would have incentive to move the policy towards further profit for the members, while central banks have incentives to stabilize the economy.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#480

Post by Smithalicious »

burlesona wrote: post #389
lacker wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

It's legally tricky to be anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook, but I don't think it's morally tricky. The entire idea of anti-trust (and frankly, the premise of most western democracies) is to prevent the over-concentration of power. Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non…

>Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now

No it isn't, not even close. At most it's the third most powerful tech company, after Alphabet and Amazon.

Post reply on HN