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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#351

Post by xxxpupugo »

dannyr wrote: post #90

I dislike Facebook but I kind of feel sorry for them now because any ambitious thing that they'll attempt will probably be blocked by governments now. Facebook and Zuckerberg deserves it though.

- Facebook is a US company

- Facebook is at best tolerated by the European countries, they 100% didn't trust it. It is one step away to be claimed as public enemy.

Basically Libra is treated as erosion to EU's governance, and transfer that power to US government. Why would EU welcome this at all?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#352

Post by TheKarateKid »

Hermel wrote: post #332
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, no. This is just reckless. I'm trying hard to assume good faith here. "Wait and see" is a good approach to see whether your new electric city bus line is working or whether people prefer your website logo in red. You can never, ever take back what became basic necessities on a nation level while being even remotely democratic. Once people have it, they won't give it back. And you seriously think Facebook is to…

Why are you so convinced that everyone would immediately want to use Libra? Do you think the Euro is such a mess? If that’s really the case, wouldn’t some people using an alternate currency be a step forward? If Libra is going to be more economically than a typical bank, that will take many years and give plenty of time to react in case of problems. Also, it should first be up to the people for themselves to decide w…

> Why are you so convinced that everyone would immediately want to use Libra?

In the beginning, it will be optional. But if/when everyone starts using it, most people won’t have a choice.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#353

Post by sorokod »

atemerev wrote: post #242
sorokod wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Asgaard is not operating on behalf of the German government. The service it provides is completely different to politically expedient way of projecting military power by the state.

So is Academi. Their primary mission is protecting corporate interests in unstable countries / war zones. Asgaard used to do the same (I am not sure if they still exist).

Academi a.k.a. Blackwater of "Nisour Square massacre" [1] ? Same company whose founder is pitching "to deploy a private army to help topple Venezuela’s socialist president, Nicolas Maduro" [2] ? Same company that is now a member of the Constellis Group[3] ?

Pardon me for not taking the corporate rebranding shenanigans too seriously.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisour_Square_massacre

[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-erikpr...

[3] https://constellis.com/sectors/government

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#354

Post by petschge »

the-dude wrote: post #313
stkdump wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany is deconstructing itself by [...] ignoring millenium problems in governance, such as unchecked mass migration. What are you talking about? Germany is 25% immigrants, the US is close to 100% immigrants.

I think he is talking about the murders, rapes, and stabbings. Heck, NL had 2 US citizens stabbed by an Afghani living in DE.

Per population Germany has less of that than the US has school shootings.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#355

Post by javert »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #237
javert wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "monetary power" is "inherent to the sovereignty of nations" (quoting the article), they're also against bitcoin. I doubt the use of the words "private entity" was specifically intended to exclude decentralized currencies. It probably actually means "anyone who is not us."

It's a pretty obvious term. Obvious in the way that it includes Libra (where Facebook is a private entity), and excludes something like Bitcoin which is not directly controlled by any such entity.

No, it's not obvious what it means.

In everyday English, it would be obvious, but regulators and politicians are not bound by that.

"It's obvious" is rarely a good argument on this particular site. If it were obvious we wouldn't be talking about it.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#356

Post by tgv »

paulcarroty wrote: post #347

Typical government don't want: * easy cross-country payments * non-government money institutions 'Cause money always been the major element of government power. For typical people, I think, Libra and similar are more positive. If you can pay someone in Africa from Japan with minimal fees/headache, it's very cool.

Until Zuckerberg changes his mind, or something else happens. Then it's back to bitching about governments failing to protect your rights.

Money is power, as you imply, and I don't want any of it in Zuckerberg's hands.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#357

Post by eloff »

arethuza wrote: post #279
tannhaeuser wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

"not very much longer an EU member" I don't think there is much chance of Brexit this year, and a pretty good chance that it will never happen. Mind you - always a chance that we'll simply get thrown out for being incompetent at running a country...

The chance of the latter seems to be rising, EU leaders seem to be running out of patience with making Brexit extensions.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#358

Post by chroma »

journalctl wrote: post #289

Private tech companies should not be issuing currency. I can’t believe we have to have this conversation.

Why not? Unlike governments, private companies can't coerce me to use their currency. If I think their currency is garbage, I'm totally free to not use it and to convert any Libra I receive into USD. That's not at all true for government-issued currencies. For example: If I try to pay my taxes with anything other than USD, men with guns will come to my home and put me in a cage.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#359

Post by tsss »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything

If you watched the news some time during the last 30 years you get quite a different impression. The German government parties, particularly CDU, CSU and SPD, are _constantly_ trying to grab power and erode our civil liberties; They barely do anything else. If I had a euro for every law that those three passed that was obviously unconstitutional I'd have enough money to bribe my own CSU congressman. The only problem the German government has with Facebook Libra is that they themselves don't control it.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#360

Post by Tomte »

wil421 wrote: post #348
eastendguy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

>It is accepted everywhere. Not in my experience in the least bit. Germany was the only place that I’ve been where there were so many non-credit card restaurants etc. I was traveling for work in Bavaria and baden-württemberg. It was an issue and we had to make sure I selected the right place to use my work cc. I took some personal time in Munich and most of the places I went were cash only. 2 students, one from Finla…

Strange, I'm living in Germany, hailing from Baden-Württemberg and now been living in Northrhine-Westphalia for almost ten years, and I cannot remember a single restaurant that doesn't accept credit cards. And I'm paying almost everything with credit card.

Sure, the ice cream stand at the swimming pool only accepts cash, as does the local discotheque, but restaurants? Never a problem.

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