If you work for Uber and read these stories, day after day, how do you feel working there?
I am really interested - were there thoughts of walking away because of it?
How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
471–480 of 805 posts
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't see how any entity (including Uber) has an obligation to make it easy for the law to ticket them. Corporate citizens have an obligation to obey the laws of the jurisdictions in which they operate. If they find the laws unacceptable, they should lobby to have them changed.
Herein lies the source of the disagreement. We are all better off because uber willfully disregarded these laws and regulations. These laws once had a good reason, but are now still on the books only because incumbents have regulators in their pockets. As for lobbying to have the laws changed, if you expect startups to be able to lobby in every jurisdiction to get the law changed against incumbents when the regulator…
> We are all better off because uber willfully disregarded these laws and regulations.
The thing is, we're not. What we've got is a cab company that can offer better and cheaper service than everyone else because it's breaking the law, and it's good at throwing VC money at lawyers to avoid the consequences. What we've got is further damage to the respect for the rule of law and thus to the fabric of civilization, as people see how Uber gets away with illegal activities. Hell, there are many people who are inspired by their antisocial behaviour, and see Uber as an example to follow.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue that when you give a subset of a population an institutionalized monopoly on the user of force, you're always going to get bad government eventually. That's why the State should never have the power to do anything that an individual could not justly do. http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
>I would argue that when you give a subset of a population an institutionalized monopoly on the user of force, you're always going to get bad government eventually. Why?
The balance of power allows government officials to control those outside of government.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#474Now we know why they wanted your location after your ride -- to profile your home and work activities and possibly infer your occupation.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that square with this article? https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/10/23/u-s-has-w... To sum up, there was a $450 renunciation fee as well as a $450 fee for relinquishment, but both were jacked up from $450 to $2,350. This does not include exit taxes and the like, but while $4700 might seem trivial to the well-heeled, it's a far cry from free (and unilateral).
You're right, I was wrong. I forgot to check because the fees are set by federal rule but then billed in local currencies at different consular offices around the world, and the fee schedule is (oddly) not centralized at state.gov. Thanks for catching my error. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/08/28/2014-20...
No problem. I was fully prepared for the possibility that something had changed with the administration. I tend to follow politics pretty closely, but not all factually true statements maintain their truthiness over time.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
Voting is an illusion of choice. You have the choice to use Uber or not, You don't have a choice when it comes to following the law. How is state not a huge corporation?
> How is state not a huge corporation? Um. A state is a place that happens to constitute the jurisdiction of its government. A corporation, huge or not, is a legal entity chartered (in the U.S.) by the government of a state (q.v. supra).
What about municipal corporations?
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. It's genius in a Lex Luthor kind of way. If I understood the full scope of the application, I like to think i'd decline to work on that. It's easy to imagine engineers working on small parts of the system, and never really connecting the dots that the whole point is to evade law enforcement. There's a big difference between keeping secrets for market advantage and to evade the law. In the first case, I want…
It's easy to imagine engineers working on small parts of the system, and never really connecting the dots that the whole point is to evade law enforcement. I would volunteer to work on that project because its whole point is to evade law enforcement. A lot of us (hackers/technologists) take a pretty dim view of arbitrary State regulations and "laws" and are quite happy to work to evade them. Most people who fit the t…
And here I thought that's just teenagers "who fit the techno-libertarian or cypherpunk mentality", and only until they finally grow up.
The mindset you're describing is pretty self-centered and ignorant of how societies work. The law is there to reconcile conflicting interest so that people don't start using violence to pursue their goals. Techno-libertarian teenagers should imagine what would happen if some people they disagree with contracted that libertarian spirit.
ETA:
Announcing two new startups - Uber Biotech and Uber Medicare. Because what could possibly go wrong from arbitrarily avoiding regulations for the sake of profits.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. The only thing you can do with Uber is use it or not. Maybe you could write Uber a letter. You have a say in government - that is its stated goal and purpose. Of the people for the people.
>You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. You can do ALL of those things with uber. You can vote as a shareholder, apply for a job, petition, volunteer, protest, etc...
I doubt Uber is going to hire you if your goal is to change its business policies. Voting as a shareholder is also not the same as voting as a citizen. Everyone has the right to vote as a citizen, only the right h shareholders in Uber have the right to vote as a shareholder.
Additionally, the problems like gerrymandering still appear in different forms in corporate structures. Often times founders have majority control of the company in the form of different shares. While this is good for the founders, this is bad for anyone else who doesn't like the direction of the company.
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy to imagine engineers working on small parts of the system, and never really connecting the dots that the whole point is to evade law enforcement. I would volunteer to work on that project because its whole point is to evade law enforcement. A lot of us (hackers/technologists) take a pretty dim view of arbitrary State regulations and "laws" and are quite happy to work to evade them. Most people who fit the t…
Are you also going to take the same generous view towards people evading State regulations and laws that you don't like? Because if you are only okay with people evading laws that you don't like, but they should obey the ones you do like, then you are setting yourself above the law. That way lies authoritarianism.
I think this is best exemplified by the 20th centuries most famous authoritarian, Martin Luther King Jnr
Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you also going to take the same generous view towards people evading State regulations and laws that you don't like? Because if you are only okay with people evading laws that you don't like, but they should obey the ones you do like, then you are setting yourself above the law. That way lies authoritarianism.
Not sure how civil disobedience leads to authoritarianism rather than the opposite. Also, by your reasoning, civil disobedience is never justified. And does Trump being President change your reasoning at all?
Civil disobedience is breaking the law one perceives as unjust (or refusing to follow it) to make a point about the legal system. It includes accepting the consequences of one's actions. What Uber does is garden variety illegal business practice. No societal benefit in mind, just money to be made.