Live data from Hacker News

School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

york.ac.uk

461–470 of 706 posts

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#461

When I see all these "phone ban" experiments, I always wonder, is the phone that's the issue, or is it the apps/websites tailored for engagement (a.k.a addiction)? Maybe instead of banning kids from using phones, they should consider banning companies from making their apps addictive on purpose.

Sorry for posting this more than once, but it's not anything:

https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/news-events/no-evidence-screen-time...

The York study was a tiny set of kids and the only change was sleep pattern. There have been numerous studies done on larger groups and they results coalesce around screens not being a problem.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#462

Can we have smartphone threads where everyone discloses whether they're an app developer or have another conflict of interest? Some of us know these kids are cash cows and are behaving like the anti-gun-regulation lobby of the tech world. I am not an app developer and derive no income from the sale or usage of smartphones or their software.

I'm an app developer who's spent my career building excellent iOS apps, previously with Google and Snap. I have every intention of raising my kids as far away from smartphones as possible, ideally until they're at least teenagers. My fiance and I have already discussed keeping the household as de-screened as possible, it's something we consider a lot. It's interesting you'd suggest that an app developer would have a…

That's exactly what I was going to say. Every software dev I know who works on apps, social media, etc. all keep their kids from going near the shit. They know, conflict of interest or not. I've not seen anyone behind these products once they hit a mature state where they start psychologically stripmining their audiences who's eager to get any of their family onboarded.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would my credit card be in their Apple Wallet?

For very small children it probably doesn't make sense, but when they get a bit older it's not that unusual. My kids have my credit card on their phone for when they need it. They are also joint owners of our bank accounts. We've told them if they ever get the news that we have died, they should go withdraw a bunch of money to carry them over until all the estate stuff settles.

Damn, it's impressive how trusting you are with them. My parents would never had done that.

Seems like your kids are being raised well.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#464

When I see all these "phone ban" experiments, I always wonder, is the phone that's the issue, or is it the apps/websites tailored for engagement (a.k.a addiction)? Maybe instead of banning kids from using phones, they should consider banning companies from making their apps addictive on purpose.

To what end? Why do school kids need a smartphone?

There are a lot of things schools themselves have done that end up essentially requiring it. Here's a short list from my kids' district:

* Use an LMS called Infinite Canvas. Among other things, the kids have to submit homework online -- which can be done on the web app -- which often requires them to take a photo of handwritten work to upload. Have you ever tried taking a photo of a piece of paper using a $200 Chromebook?

* Use Teamsnap for sports team management: scheduling, roster management, messaging, etc.

* Use Instagram for school-official communications, including things like social events, counseling services, college visits, and sports team news.

... There are more, but the point is that phone apps make certain things easy and schools are taking advantage of that fact, even if they're simultaneously banning them during school hours.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you live in a city with lots of crime and there's a shooting in the parking lot of the school at one in the morning, it's not really something that needs an urgent text from the kids.

I definitely agree. If my kid went to school in south side chicago I’d get bored getting texts 291 times per day, yea

I think you've missed my point.

Yes, I want to know these things happen.

No, they are not such an emergency that my kid needs to be taking time from class to text me about it.

Most schools in areas with lots of crime or gang activity have metal detectors and other security at the doors. Violence is happening off hours, or between gang members either off campus (but close enough to warrant bringing people inside) or at the edges.

In a country with hundreds of millions of people, a thousand over four years is not exactly a rounding error given that it is concentrated in a few areas, but still close enough that the vast majority will never experience it in their lives.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did suggest a new experiment, one lasting longer than 21 days to test their hypothesis. Hypothesis -> proposed experiment -> results -> questions evoked by results -> new hypothesis -> new proposed experiment MOST importantly, they didn’t fake any results and went where the data took them. This is the kind of science that has been falling out of fashion for the last few decades in favor of researchers who work b…

They could have included the obvious (but probably unwanted) alternative hypothesis: Researchers suggest that these results might mean that changes in cognitive ability could take longer than the study period of 21 days to materialize, or access to devices has a positive effect on attention offsetting the effects of sleep on attention . It's probably unlikely but it is an obvious possibility.

OR - crazy hypothesis - maybe they're familiar with the large amounts of research that already exists which shows that access to devices has a negative effect on attention. Just maybe.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important component is solving parent entitlement as well. They are stakeholders, not customers. (~1600 school districts across 24 states in the US are on 4 day weeks to attempt to retain teachers)

What happens if both parents work?

You do the best you can, but you’re likely setup for failure.

As a parent in the trenches, I do not recommend children to anyone who is not fully prepared and informed for twenty years of a form of hardship.

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/parents-under-pressu...

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#468

Can we have smartphone threads where everyone discloses whether they're an app developer or have another conflict of interest? Some of us know these kids are cash cows and are behaving like the anti-gun-regulation lobby of the tech world. I am not an app developer and derive no income from the sale or usage of smartphones or their software.

I don't know any single anti-gun-regulation person who manufactures guns. Anyways. I am not app developer blah blah and I'm against this. Don't want your kids to be cash cows? Don't give them a credit card...?

Attention itself is being milked, it has very little to do with money on the frontline. We a/b test these products, genetically pruning them to maximum addictiveness ("time spent on platform") and peer pressure / virality and we're maximizing people's attention spent. Adults are unable to handle it, kids even less so.

Even if you play Roblox for free, you're a) still critical to the developer (whale economics require many peasants for the whales to feel comfortable spending themselves to higher status), and you're still trading off activities that benefit you long term (reading, learning, actually interacting with the non toxic world)

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just went to where 99% of parents don't even know how to get to. Do you think it should be expected of parents to figure out how to use whatever "PiHole" is to protect their kids? I admire your personal dedication to making it as hard as possible to be exploited, but we really can't expect non-tech people to go to the same lengths. And at one point, we might have to admit that parents who spend 99% of their time…

My point is - it's under my control, if I didn't know how to do this I'd either accept the ads, pay, or not allow phone usage. There are options. I don't need the government to do that for me, I can decide myself. Here in Europe, phone is necessary for daily life - even as a kid. And it makes it so much easier, better - and interesting, if you teach your kids that. My kids use their phone like a Star Trek tricorder,…

> I don't need the government to do that for me, I can decide myself.

What frustrates me about these discussions is the same pro-libertine knee jerk individualist response is parroted for it, even though this choice is not impacting you, or at least, not only and for the purposes of the topic, any impact on you is ancillary. These decisions impact your children, and not just now, but for the rest of their lives. If all goes to plan, the ripple effects from these choices will be in motion still long after you are dead.

It's the same kind of irritated I get when parents are advocating for themselves having say over school curricula, testing standards, sports programs, what have you over trained professionals who's entire careers are centered on getting kids the best outcomes possible, but who must argue as though the opinions of Bernadette Peters, who has never left Blenheim, South Carolina in her 37 years on this planet, also has input to offer.

And like, this isn't a criticism of you, it sounds like you're doing it as close to right as one can manage. And also, what about all the kids at the school who's parents don't know what you know? What about all the ones who lack the knowledge to pass on, let alone the will to? What about ones who's kiddos struggle with tech in general, either because of ignorance, or because of neuro-divergence, or because of accessibility issues, or any number of other problems?

You're effectively arguing that because you've taught your kids how to consume alcohol in a healthy way that they should be able to carry booze to school. However true that might be for your kids, there are also other kids around too, and the school admin is responsible for all of them, not just yours.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#470
post #437

It's not phones or tablets. It's the wrong doing apps / social netwrks / games. Same applies to friends: there are friend circles that bring only bad behaviors. We don't ban friendship because of that. Ban social network apps. Ban addictive games. Ban notifications and any other FOMO-triggering mechanisms. Don't ban phones.

Banning phones is simpler, and has no downsides. You are at school to learn, you don't need a phone or tablet for that. Besides, lots of things can be addictive and distracting. Personally I'm addicted to reading news. Had smartphones existed when I was a kid, simply banning social media and games wouldn't have been enough.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN