Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 610 posts

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#461

Post by HDThoreaun »

uluyol wrote: post #84
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think any other country with a massively more powerful army would put up with a neighbor intermittently terrorizing them and then hide behind civilians and not respond similarly, I'm not sure what to tell you. Doesn't make it right. But there's no easy way out of this. Look at the US response to 9-11 to see what other countries would do...

The Palestinians are not intermittently but continuously oppressed. Israel can stop it at any time but chooses not to, hence the retaliation by the Palestinians. What Israel is doing now is not retaliation but doubling down on their standard M.O. You've got the history backwards, friend.

It's really not that simple at all. Israel pulled out of gaza and gazans immediately voted for a party whose main goal is the extermination of Jews. ending the oppression of palestinaisn would immediately lead to massive terrorist attacks against israelis, why would they let that happen?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#462

Post by nec4b »

jacquesm wrote: post #219
ipaddr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hamas is as big as it is because there are a lot of people in Gaza who think that Hamas is their best chance of changing the situation. If it is as bad as it seems to be to me as an outsider then you have to understand that for someone with absolutely no future and nothing to lose living in what has been termed the worlds largest prison that a large fraction will end up being recruited. This is a reflection of the de…

You missed with your analogy. Germany (Palestine) wasn't happy with what it got, started a war, lost it. It became radicalized, Nazis (Hamas) came to power and sought to utterly exterminate some of its neighbors and some groups of people. They didn't want to have peace talks to the very bitter end. I guess you Netherlanders were the lucky ones, because you were pure enough to be not considered an inferior race.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#463

Post by jacquesm »

edanm wrote: post #401
jacquesm wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between killing Rabin and the settlements this isn't going to stop for decades to come unless something changes, and for that to work both sides will need to want to solve it. I don't see that happening, and you seem to think that only Gaza citizens have the power to stop the conflict. But for that to work they'd have to have something to work with and that just isn't happening. De-occupation is clearly not sufficien…

I think it's true, to some extent, that only Gazans have the power to stop the conflict. (I say Gazans and not Gaza citizen, because I think it's Hamas that has the power, not the actual citizens, which is part of the reason we're in this mess.) Israel does a lot of bad things, like the settlements in the West Bank. No question about that. But if Israel were to stop with those tomorrow, I honestly don't think it will…

Agreed, but: Israel is losing support all over the world because of the settlements and that in turn can be used by the Palestinians (and actually the rest of the Arab world) to claim they are justified in doing whatever they do. You can't effectively point at others while you are doing stuff yourself.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#464

Post by nec4b »

bhouston wrote: post #172
ipaddr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

ipaddr wrote: > Those who support Hamas aren't innocent. That is the language of genocide.

Why? Do you believe those that supported Nazis were not responsible for atrocities of Nazism?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#465

Post by YZF »

tachyons wrote: post #164
orionsbelt wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has given repeated warnings for the north of Gaza to evacuate south for the past two weeks while Gaza has had internet. In addition, they have dropped leaflets all over the are stating the same thing.

Except it was just a an eyewash, people tried to move got killed on the way, people also got murdered in the so called safe areas by Israel.

Since I'm just reading this there's an analysis of where Israel has bombed in this article: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/world/israeli-ground-forces-i...

Which clearly demonstrates that the focus is on the northern parts of Gaza.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#466

Post by throwrqX »

hackerlight wrote: post #441
peteradio wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want the right-wing zealots in power to eject themselves? Or you expect a ground swell of support for left candidates who would tend to favor making peace with an enemy who just attacked you? Best case is that Hamas is completely routed (who knows) and Bibi takes all the flak for the war crimes and what have you. What happens if Israel does what you say but are still suffering attacks? How much antisemitism ex…

> So you want the right-wing zealots in power to eject themselves? I want the US to force their hand to stop the invasion. Then Netanyahu's reckoning will come with the Israeli population. Likud needs this invasion to happen to distract the population from accountability. But if the US forces them to not invade, that reckoning can come sooner. > What happens if Israel does what you say but are still suffering attacks…

There's no such thing as an "impenetrable DMZ" so I don't know why you bring that up. Even the most fortified borders can have gaping holes as the October 7 attack showed. The US can't force anything either. During the Yom Kippur War when the US was a lot more hesitant about giving aid the only result was Israel threatening to use nuclear weapons against the Arab armies.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#467

Post by edanm »

jacquesm wrote: post #463
edanm wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's true, to some extent, that only Gazans have the power to stop the conflict. (I say Gazans and not Gaza citizen, because I think it's Hamas that has the power, not the actual citizens, which is part of the reason we're in this mess.) Israel does a lot of bad things, like the settlements in the West Bank. No question about that. But if Israel were to stop with those tomorrow, I honestly don't think it will…

Agreed, but: Israel is losing support all over the world because of the settlements and that in turn can be used by the Palestinians (and actually the rest of the Arab world) to claim they are justified in doing whatever they do. You can't effectively point at others while you are doing stuff yourself.

Yes. This is one of the reasons I usually vote for the most far-left party in Israel, and one of the reasons (though admittedly not the main reason) that large amounts of Israelis have been protesting our government for the last year.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#468

Post by spixy »

culi wrote: post #109
petertodd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…

The percentage of civilian deaths of Palestinian casualties to Israel is around 70%. Their goal isn't really to target soldiers > It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1) This article does not provide a source for that figure but it's definitely on the high end. The number of members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas' armed wing) has been estimated anywhere from 15-40k.

correlation != causation

their goal can be to target soldiers, and at the same time they kill civilians (because they are near soldiers which are being attacked)

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#469

Post by spixy »

anonu wrote: post #169
petertodd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…

And then what? Is Hamas a wart you can simply excise? And if you do, will you just be galvanizing the next generation of fighters? If so many are part of the population, it would seem so...

You are right, Hamas cannot be excised as we see in Afganistan.

Only way for Gazans will be to assimilate to israeli/western values I guess (if they want to have a proper life)

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#470

Post by justnotworthit »

invalidname wrote: post #296
teleforce wrote: post #287

Guess which building first demolished to the ground by Israel military in Gaza at the beginning of the conflict? No price of getting the right answer, it's the Watan Tower building that hosted most of Gaza Internet Sevice Provider (ISP) companies Paltel and Jawwal and their infrastructure. It was also a hub for several international media outlets, including the Associated Press and Al Jazeera [1],[2],[3]. We are some…

It also included offices for the Hamas and was a symbol of its power. That was the main motivation for removing it.

We can now say cutting off the internet is their goal:

The minister of communications has said Israel will “use all means at its disposal to fight” the use of Elon Musk’s Starlink to support connectivity for aid groups in Gaza.

Post reply on HN