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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#461

Post by digdugdirk »

savryn wrote: post #393
scop wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Weinstein had a great segment on his Portal podcast about this very thing. I can't recall the interview (maybe with Balaji?), but if it comes to me I'll comment it. The gist was that he was talking about Covid and he observed that the guest had to spend an inordinate amount of time saying what he was not saying, to the point of being absurd. He had to constantly preface his comments with a long series of stateme…

watching eric go through his arc of disillusionment in public, despite all his sincerity and hopefulness and intelligence was really sobering for me. A lot of us have this inner "oh if only I was a better speaker / smarter / worked on my persuasion skills ..." It's just not how power works. It's not how society works. I get that now, and it was amazing anthropology to see it unfold.

Mind explaining what you mean by his arc of disillusionment? I don't follow the guy, my only recollection of him is from listening to him on a podcast about some wild "physics theory of everything" a while back. I recall it being one of those "I'm not sure if I'm an idiot, or he's crazy, but this sure is a fun ride" kinds of experiences.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#462

Post by Mountain_Skies »

mertd wrote: post #313
taolegal wrote: post #10

The same people who wouldn't be charitable with, say, Exxon, are bending over backwards to defend global pharmaceuticals. Exxon has an interest in minimizing (disregarding) the harmful effects of their products and same goes for Pfizer & friends who's got every govt funneling money to them seemingly without limit.

Oil consumption creates negative externalities for everyone. Mass vaccination creates positive externalities. It's not that hard.

Does oil consumption not have any positive externalities? Have mass vaccinations never had a negative externality? Remember, the first world is not the entirety of humanity before answering.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#463

Post by nonethewiser »

russdill wrote: post #453
hitpointdrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vacci…

You're comparing a study with 200,000 people with a study with 43,000,000 people.

And you're comparing a study that monitored for less than a month to one that monitored for 4 months.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#464

Post by dekhn »

xracy wrote: post #429
dekhn wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to do "appeal to emotion" argument, doesn't work super well here.

If you want my "appeal to numbers" argument, you can see it all over this thread. It seems like I'm getting a continual -2 on votes for all of my arguments just cause I'm coming off as "pro-vaccine". So it doesn't actually seem to matter what appeals I make. Also though, I don't really believe I'm changing anyone's mind on this. I'm just inviting people consider the humanity of things like "child deaths". Which, is m…

I have a couple kids (teens). I'm worried about many other things, not COVID; it's just far down on my list of things that I consider active risks to my children that I have the power to impact.

I don't really have time to cross reference all your different comments, but when you post a comment that is just appeal to emotion, I tend to mention it.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#465

Post by mindslight »

beebmam wrote: post #175
throwaway09223 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

Exactly right. People with insurance have zero idea how much medical care actually costs because it's really hard to keep up with all the health insurance documents one receives. Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast. (I was, twice, circa 2010. I was unemployed and uninsured)

> Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast

Actually no, you still won't. Because the hospitals send out fraudulently inflated/overitemized bills to help their negotiating positions.

To know how much medical care actually costs, you need to have "insurance" and read through the itemized bills and explanations of benefits. The top line large number is the fraudulent amount that has no basis in reality, there is an "adjustment" based on the rates the "insurance" company has actually agreed to pay, there is the amount the "insurance" company pays them, and then there is your portion. Adding the last two, or taking the first minus the second, is as close to knowing how much something costs as you can get in this fucked up system.

Also it bears repeating, never pay a medical bill unless you're damn sure you're responsible for the amount [0]. Even if you have "insurance", often you'll get sent the fraudulent bill right away, and it will take a month or two for "insurance" to bother doing their job. Also billing departments have no problem blatantly lying to you about your (non) responsibility for the fraudulent bill, since it might get them more money.

[0] Of course some times they have you over a barrel like ongoing care getting denied if you have an unpaid balance. In which case you just have to eat it and then hassle your "insurance" company for half a year to get your money back.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#466

Post by spfzero »

xracy wrote: post #164
spfzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like, in the absence of assurance of long-term safety, you would recommend the vaccine for at-risk groups only. It's known now that the risk to young people (under 19) is minimal: IFR < 3/1,000,000. And that was during the much more dangerous early strain of Covid-19, not the ones circulating now. Yet here we are in 2022 with a recommendation from the CDC to vaccinate ages 5 and up, regardless of health…

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

I am a parent. It's not that I don't think some children should be vaccinated; some should. Overweight, diabetic, etc. We know where the risk is, and we know the vaccine reduces serious outcomes. It's recommending it across-the-board that I object to.

Now if your argument is "what's the harm?, why not vaccinate everyone?" my answer would be we don't actually know what the harm might be to these kids later in life. No one does. Probably no harm, I guess? Maybe a 3/1,000,000 chance of harm? no one knows.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#467

Post by nonethewiser »

blitz_skull wrote: post #366
hitpointdrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vacci…

I had COVID twice, never got the vaccine (still haven't), and I was diagnosed with Myocarditis. I personally know 2 other young ( I might say there's a "statistically insignificant increase", but to say there's no increase is just factually wrong. (And statistically wrong too).

Myocarditis existed long before covid. You can get it without covid nor the vaccine. Your anecdote is as informative as my friend who got it several years before Covid.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#468

Post by nonethewiser »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #19
hitpointdrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vacci…

Now, to balance between you and the OP: Great, Covid looks like it won't give me myocarditis. It can still kill me, though. So now we have to balance a "may give me myocarditis" vaccine against a "may kill me, but won't give me myocarditis" virus. You can't make the trade-off solely on myocarditis.

> Now, to balance between you and the OP

Well, no. That's moving the goalpost. The question was if COVID was more likely to result in myocarditis than vaccines. "Yes, but" still grants "yes."

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#469

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

thrwy_918 wrote: post #62
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it Can you expand on this please? I find it extremely hard to understand how an ACA-compliant health care plan could "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis. Unless you're on a high-deductible plan and the entire stay was less than your deductible?

Deductibles often run $5,000 to $10,000 and usually only 80% is covered after that.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#470

Post by giantdude »

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

>One of my kids, 15 at the time, ...

You had 15 kids at the time? How many kids do you have now? My hat is off!

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