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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#461

Post by DocTomoe »

wolverine876 wrote: post #330
fnordpiglet wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point wasn’t about seediness or drug use, but about the number of severely mentally ill living on the streets. That has objectively gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s and the Reagan dismantling of the national public mental health system and subsequent collapse at the state level. I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what…

> gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s That was 40 years ago! > I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what they do than an untreated and unhoused paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. I've spent a lot of time on city streets and I've never seen these putative people. The good news is that these bogey-people are unicor…

> That was 40 years ago!

Which just means the homeless population had 40 years to be - for the lack of a better word - 'enriched' with people who should have gotten psychiatric help (and them being on the street is unlikely to have made them become better).

> They are, in fact, very vulnerable, the weakest people out there.

I agree, and I think they ought to get the help they need, and what happens to them in the US is criminal. That still doesn't mean I would let my kid run unsupervised in an open-air forensic psychiatric ward.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#463

Post by teraku »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

There is research on this, and basically people have gone from a model of concentric circles to a model of connected island.

What does this mean?

Back in the day, you explored the area around yourself by foot or bike. Your model of your surroundings grew in concentric circles, which included more and more places of interest. Your friend's house, school, the library, and so on.

Nowadays, you drive everywhere, by train or car, and it is like warping to that location. The way is just a wait, which you spend on your phone, or sometimes driving (but really (auto-)piloted by your navigation system).

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#464

Post by andai »

When I was 5, my mother and I had just moved from Croatia to the Netherlands. She sent me down to the shop to buy her some beers. I came home empty-handed, so she went back to the shop and laughed at the shopkeeper—"what, do you think he's going to drink it?"

(The shopkeeper was not amused.)

Similarly, she took me to see Kill Bill when I was 11. That was during a trip to Croatia, of course. In the Netherlands such a thing would have been illegal—and worse, immoral!

Now that Croatia's in the EU, the country is essentially being financially bribed to pretend to care about such issues.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#465

Post by smt88 »

jonp888 wrote: post #457
smt88 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're paid while the justice is being worked out and their trial takes years, that is potentially a burden that the employer can't bear. Also, you're describing a situation where bad behavior becomes a protected class as soon as you get arrested for it. In my high school, a teacher was caught raping one of his teenage students. He was fired for it. In your opinion, if he had been arrested, he should have had his…

Hooray for people having their entire lives destroyed because someone decided they 'know' something which might not even be true. There are plenty of cases of trials over rape or assault allegations which were entirely fictitious. This isn't even really the point being discussed. It's more that someone could be fired for an arrest over a an offence which has absolutely nothing to do with their job.

> Hooray for people having their entire lives destroyed because someone decided they 'know' something which might not even be true.

People are not entitled to due process to keep their jobs. Where do you draw the line? Should it be illegal to fire someone for failing a drug test (which are not 100% reliable) until a jury finds them guilty?

> There are plenty of cases of trials over rape or assault allegations which were entirely fictitious.

There are very, very few[1]. You're just more likely to hear about the false ones.

This makes logical sense. It is personally costly to the accuser to accuse someone of rape, even when the accusation is completely true.

The accuser is subject to people calling them a slut, liar, etc.

> In my country, even schoolteachers being investigated for sexual abuse aren't fired.

> It's more that someone could be fired for an arrest over a an offence which has absolutely nothing to do with their job.

So you're moving the goalposts. First, you said that even a teacher accused of sexual abuse (which is very much related to their job) shouldn't be fired. Now you're saying that should only be true if the crime is related to the job.

Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to fire someone for being filmed murdering someone on camera? That person hasn't been convicted yet. The legal system considers them innocent.

You say you want a blanket ban on firing people for accusations of crimes, but then you don't address what we should do for the edge cases. Nothing you're asking for makes any legal sense.

I should be able to fire someone for any reason that isn't my own prejudice. Freedom of association is important.

1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#466

Post by hef19898 »

Spellman wrote: post #35
johnzim wrote: post #20

As a parent, none of the risks are as profound as that of some other member of the public calling the police to inform on your “dangerous parenting”. I’ve deliberately chosen to live in a walkable part of the Bay Area in the hopes that my kids can be more independent when they get older, but I’m more worried about the social pushback than I am about their safety.

In CA there's laws specifically against leaving a child in the car due to risk of overheating. There's no laws about leaving them at home alone. That being said, there have been lots of horror stories of other adults calling the cops out of concern for child "neglect." And this creates a huge hassle for the parents. Try to figure out our neighborhood's feelings on the topic, and obviously look into the Free Range Kid…

>> Free Range Kids movement

So basically a normal childhood? Just wondering, because as a European I find this whole discussion enlightening (learning something new) and bizarre at the same time. Heck, our kids are picking up groceries and bread at the two shops near by every week-end. Which is great, because it means us parents can sleep in longer. Just thinking about someone calling CPS or the cops for that, I think they would be laughed out. At least I hope that cops would even refuse to show up in such cases, because honestly, if the caller sounds worried enough they just could.

That being said, we have a community youth center and sports / playground right across the street. There, kids and teenagers of all sorts are hanging out well into the night. I just wished I could motivate my elder son to do so as well, because that would be so much better than spending his time indoors. There is only so much screen time limiting you can do.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#467

Post by brigandish »

dionidium wrote: post #199
tempnow987 wrote: post #67

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

That's a horrible story that resulted in the Maryland CPS issuing the following statement clarifying that what those parents did was not neglect: > And in fact, as Donna St. George reported in yesterday's Washington Post, Maryland's CPS has just issued new guidelines, saying, "Children playing outside or walking unsupervised does not meet the criteria for a CPS response absent specific information supporting the conc…

On the other hand, that something is rare does not mean we should dismiss it because it is rare. If humans get together to set up a system then edge cases that are high risk like this (high risk because risk == chance of occurrence * effect) should not be able to happen. Do NASA just shrug every time a rare occurrence ends someone's life? I hope not, and the care system is not rocket science so there's even less excuse for an heedless attitude.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#468

Post by hef19898 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #459
hef19898 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany we have the concept of a "Spielstraße" (translation: Playing Street?), where walking speed is the max. accepted driving speed and playing kids have the priority in everyway. I grew up in one, it was great!

Worth mentioning: Those usually are side-roads with little traffic to begin with, and cul-de-sacs.

Sure! And they are, kind of by definition, residential areas with lot's of young families and children.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#469

Post by brigandish »

smt88 wrote: post #418
sacrosancty wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>due to the nature of my employment I am no longer employed This is an overlooked problem. Lack of employment protection. Nobody should be able to be fired for being arrested. That doesn't mean they committed a crime. It's not their fault they can't show up to work. There should be employment protection for that. In my country, even schoolteachers being investigated for sexual abuse aren't fired. They aren't allowed…

If they're paid while the justice is being worked out and their trial takes years, that is potentially a burden that the employer can't bear. Also, you're describing a situation where bad behavior becomes a protected class as soon as you get arrested for it. In my high school, a teacher was caught raping one of his teenage students. He was fired for it. In your opinion, if he had been arrested, he should have had his…

That's an argument for a speedier judicial process, not allowing a lack of employment protection to act like a non-judicial punitive action (that then also likely hinders the actual defence within the justice system).

> I'm glad to live in the US where I can fire someone I know has committed a crime. It is possible to know things before the criminal justice system decides they are true.

That's the opposite of what the constitution sets out to provide.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#470

Post by grapeskin »

hef19898 wrote: post #452
refurb wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best example I heard from a friend who was a recent immigrant from India. He had quite a few friends who were the children of immigrants who arrived from India a generation earlier. When my friend’s parents visited (from India where they still lived) they were shocked when these 2nd generation American-India kids greeted them in a super formal way that had disappeared in India decades ago. Basically the immigrant…

The same is true for German immigrants in South America.

I suppose, in a way, similar for the Amish in the US.

Speaking the old language and maintaining a 1700s lifestyle, for the most part.

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