New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars • Hacker News Board

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#461

Post by macksd » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

defterGoose wrote: post #415

macksd wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it needs to be updated, you actually have to update it, though. You can't just pretend it isn't the law anymore.

Well, in particular my argument is that there isn't a legal issue with the computer being an accuser. Just that the accused doing the confronting might not get what they want out of it. I mean, what's the definition of 'confront' in this context?

"Confront" means that you can actually take it to court and evidence is examined deeper than "this machine generated this alert and the machine must be right".

I get nervous that so many cases in our legal system get pled out, because sure - if the person is actually guilty and owns up to it that saves the cost of a trial. But it also means that an awful lot of tactics just never get put in front of a judge or a public court. This is one of the prime examples.

I've lived in one state that decided cameras couldn't be witnesses, and I've lived in another state that has had scandals related to cameras being tampered with in order to increase ticketing revenue, etc. And in my current state it's fairly common knowledge that if you get a camera-related fine in the mail you just have to contest it because they will never let it get to court - they're just harvesting the low-hanging fruit. All of these policies suggest to me that your particular opinion of this law is far from the settled consensus. The combination of those things makes me very skeptical of how critical an eye has been over the whole system to verify it's working well. It doesn't seem anyone is willing to go under oath on behalf of the system that's fining people. It'll send out fines, people will from time to time find out the fines are wrong, but I just don't hear much about how much rigor is being spent actually proving anything on the other side.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#462

Post by rascul » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #457

rascul wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not overly loud. I just don't hear other loud vehicles without the radio off and the windows open, and I don't typically have the radio off and the windows open. This has always been the case for me in any vehicle at highway speeds.

I suppose it could be the opposite. A very quiet car. What make, model, and year? I’ve been looking for a quiet car. BMWs seem really quiet on the inside. My friend bought one because he wanted to shield his child from freeway homier when they were driving.

I have a 2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue and a 1999 Chevrolet Silverado 1500. They are not quiet on the inside. Lots of air leaks and stuff. I just don't understand how people hear other loud vehicles going 70MPH or so. I have good hearing (according to my latest hearing test) and unless the loud vehicle is extremely loud (like big truck with a jake brake) then I've never hear the neighboring vehicles in any vehicle, not just the two I currently have.

Edit: If I'm able to hear them, it's immediately after they have passed me.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#463

Post by mikestew » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #458

mikestew wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, is there a single thing that insurance gives you a discount for? ABS, having taken a Motorcycle Safety Foundation riding course (in the U. S.), and yes, for storing it in a garage. All of those are items for which Progressive gives a discount.

Huh. Guess I was wrong. I have the latter two (no ABS on my old Ducati Monster). Better go get my discount. Thank you!

I'd say I'm surprised that Geico didn't just come out and ask these things, as Progressive did when we signed on, but Geico has never done a lot to impress me. Probably depends a lot on the agent, I don't know. Anyway, doesn't cost anything to ask, and if that doesn't work, we've been on Progressive for the bikes for decades. Never filed a claim, but rates are reasonable and they give discounts for the stuff we were going to do anyway.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#464

Post by runnerup » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

suifbwish wrote: post #455

mikestew wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "loud pipes save(d) lives", your insurance company would give you a discount for your man-child exhaust. And if you want anecdata, I've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles in every U. S. state, most of Canada, and elsewhere. Most of those miles have been with the exhaust that came with the bike when it rolled out of the factory. I've never been sideswiped, nor even once considered that a loud exhaust would do an…

Please don’t use offensive demeaning language like “man-child” it makes you sound immature and pedantic.

What definition are you using for pedantic here? I’m a bit confused and might learn something today.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#465

Post by t8e56vd4ih » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #301

t8e56vd4ih wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, this. what do you think would be hypothetically an apt repercussion? maybe a few drops of butyric acid down a window pane?

I’ve heard that anti-SUV activists somewhere in the Nordics would place a small stone under the air valve cap and the screw it back on causing the tire to slowly go empty over the course of a day. Inconvenient, nondestructive - but also not very kind.

good idea. that's precisely the stuff I'm coming to hacker news for.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#466

Post by StanislavPetrov » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #266

throwaway984393 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to charge black people and not charge white people. Noise is noise. There's no need to be discretionary.

Ugh. This is so tiresome Why do some people find it necessary to turn every discussion into some racism witch-hunt?

Unfortunately its the lens many people have been conditioned to see everything through.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#467

Post by StanislavPetrov » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

SauciestGNU wrote: post #302

nsxwolf wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on a ridealong. You'll be arresting white people all day.

Yeah it's certainly more nuanced than just race. There has to be the right intersection of race, class, and social network to be above the law in the United States. But I'd essentially guarantee those white people being arrested all day are poor white people and generally not middle- or upper-class white people.

Exactly this. Obama's kid isn't being arrested when she drives through Martha's Vinyard in her Mercedes. Your chance of being arrested and spending time in prison is far more closely correlated with your income (or lack thereof) than your skin tone.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#468

Post by aaronchall » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 10:07 PM UTC

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #240

udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

The cops in NYC more or less ignore everything (unless your black), I've seen people walk right past them smoking weed and they didn't even turn their heads. Every once in a while they'll set up a table in the subway to search backpacks, but they don't dare stop anyone, instead they just stand around comparing their benefit plans for 2.5 hours and counting down until they can retire with pension. Same topic every tim…

They stopped me at one of those tables once and I'm not black.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#469

Post by brokenmachine » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 12:42 AM UTC

0_____0 wrote: post #456

bradlys wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to NOx and particulate stuff - yes. Much higher. When it comes to CO2 it’s obviously less.

It's also worth pointing out that motorcycles are surprisingly inefficient for their mass. If you're carpooling with 2 other people, chances are pretty good you're doing better than a motorcycle on CO2 and NOx both. I would get something like 40? mpg city, maybe like 55 highway. Paradoxically, some of the best efficiency I had was at 90mph cruise, because I tucked behind the fairing, dramatically increasing my aerody…

I've got nothing at all against motorcycles except for the idiots making noise.

If they're willing to take on the risk of riding around all these distracted idiots in SUVs, then more power to them.

I'd like to ride a motorbike but I just wouldn't feel safe considering how many close calls that weren't my fault that I've had in the car, despite considering myself a defensive driver.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#470

Post by toomanybeersies » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 2:46 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #170

udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but in California it increasingly looks like our law enforcement organizations are either dreadfully understaffed or failing miserably at enforcing basic traffic laws. I just drove to San Diego and back from the Bay Area and counted zero cops on the way down and two on the way back, and I returned on Super Bowl eve. In the south Bay Area, I regularly see folks intentionally…

I'm not sure what it's like in the USA, but in Australia it's rare to see police on freeways, because traffic enforcement is done with cameras these days.

When I drove from Melbourne to Brisbane and back, a 3,500 km round trip on mostly dual carriageway freeways, I didn't see a single cop outside of built up areas.