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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#461

Post by prepend »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #39
whoisburbansky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nice bit of semantic ju-jitsu to say "they take this data and sell a service that wouldn't be possible without it" isn't the same as "selling this data," isn't it? Especially given that the targeting mechanisms don't have any k-anonymity guarantees, and I'm aware of at least one paper showing information leaks through the ad portal [1] https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_events/122...

Seems to me like you're more playing "semantic ju-jitsu" than OP. Facebook collect data to sell targetted adspace, they do not sell data. This is a plain fact.

Right, I mean prostitutes don’t sell sex right, they just sell access to their private parts temporarily.

From a user privacy perspective, I’m skeeved out that Facebook sells access to data rather than giving out copies. The only difference is that Facebook makes more money.

It’s like those asshole companies that say they don’t sell data, but only rent it. That’s not the point that I care about.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#462

Post by runarberg »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #136
runarberg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful not to conflate necessary with convenient . Static ads can still be local, e.g. in the local newspaper, on the radio station, on a sign post, or websites for local businesses/communities.

I consider these targeting based on context or location. I'm fine with that, since it doesn't require invading the privacy of the user.

Agree. The spying part is what is wrong (and should be illegal without a consent and paid compensation). Ad agencies should not be allowed to track and model my behavior, and then use these models to sell me stuff. Or if they do they should pay me for it.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#463

Post by jackson1442 »

nerbert wrote: post #109
fairity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's TOS surrounding this change prevent any sort of content-gating of this sort. Infractions may result in removal from the app store.

I'd be curious to see whether apple has the balls to remove fb from the app store

They definitely do, Apple has revoked their developer certificate before[1], and this is really the next logical step if Facebook keeps fucking around

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-hits-back-facebook-revo...

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#464

Post by titzer »

judge2020 wrote: post #319
titzer wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember back in 2002 when I took a college course on Computer Security and the prof told story after harrowing story of the lengths to which spy agencies went to get the information they were after. I remember thinking, "Well if the NSA really wanted to track everyone and record everything that was ever transmitted over the internet, I suppose they could. But nah, that's crazy." Fast forward to 2013 and Snowden. O…

The poster you're replying to did not say that AMZN/GOOG/AAPL wouldn't spy on you, they simply stated that evidence should be considered to justify claims, especially if you're trying to spread those claims to other people. Your argument "we should sound alarms without evidence because tomorrow we'll have evidence" is classic conspiracy theory reasoning, which is why people will classify you as one. In essence, we sh…

That's a pretty big leap. The OP was talking about putting their phone in a drawer, not throwing people in jail without a trial. I, for one, don't blame them one bit.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#465

Post by cube00 »

d3ntb3ev1l wrote: post #442

Have their been any data studies to show exactly how much data is “enough” to adequately target ads? There appears to be a point of diminished returns. Overall though, it’s amazing Facebook/Google have made “targeted ads” a thing.

I suspect its like datasets for machine learning, you want every last drop to ensure you have the edge, no matter how slim, over your competitors.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#466

Post by jackson1442 »

celsoazevedo wrote: post #340
dnh44 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the App Store should not be the only marketplace available. Wouldn't Facebook then simply stop distributing it's app through the Apple App Store and then create it's own app store that doesn't have any of the anti-tracking restrictions?

Is the permission popup that asks users to allow/block access to the location, tracking, etc, tied to the App Store? On Android, it doesn't matter the source of the app. If the app wants to access your location, camera, files, etc, you need to give it access. I don't see why this new iOS feature to "ask apps not to track" has to be different, isn't it all part of what the "app sandbox" lets them do? Apple can't contr…

It's an iOS thing, but in the App Store you're not allowed to restrict functionality for users who don't consent to tracking, while elsewhere they can restrict whatever they like to bully you into accepting tracking.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#467

Post by balls187 »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #78
move-on-by wrote: post #44

I don't have Facebook and I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging. However, seeing this response from Facebook has gotten me very excited for this update. There must be more to it then Apple's generic 'Most Advanced Update Ever' marketing. I'm still skeptical of Apple's commitment to privacy, but I'm certainly happy to get this update. Apple should thank Facebook for the free marketing.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

What would be Facebook's legal argument in the US?

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#468

Post by tbrock »

rchaud wrote: post #392
buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

I think what's more likely than any kind of legal injunction is that FB and Apple will come to a "mutual understanding". Maybe Facebook will license Apple Maps (for a princely sum) and make some symbolic compromise on data collection that lets Apple water down the permission dialogs.

I don’t think Apple would bat an eye if Facebook decided to not publish their software on their platform.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#469

Post by prepend »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #385
Jtsummers wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hope is that Apple realizes they created the apparent scarce demand by not having the mini format for so long. They need to keep the format over several years so the demand can materialize as people finally upgrade their old 5S and SE devices now that there's a viable iPhone for them. But those same people are clearly patient and are not in a collective rush to go out and buy new phones, it will take several years…

Apple released a $400 to $550 iPhone SE in Apr 2020 after years of not having an updated small phone option, so I imagine many who really wanted a smaller phone jumped on that. And then 6 months later they came out with 12 mini, so I wouldn’t expect a size able amount of demand for the 12 mini would have been sucked up by the new SE.

The SE is fantastic as it’s much cheaper and works well. I switched from an XS and years of latest models and forgot how much I love thumb reader over face.

Apple Pay in particular is better with thumb reader instead of the tap, look at, tap again buggy process.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#470

Post by bumbada »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #165
Spooky23 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird. I don't think the "threat" is the obvious one... Nobody trusts Facebook -- many, if not most, people honestly believe they listen to their conversations already. The real message is how emotional and immature the leadership is to a perceived slight. A message that said "Cigarettes will kill you" didn't stop smokers, and some label won't stop Facebook users or meaningfully impact Facebook. Hell, whe…

It won’t cause Facebook to go bankrupt (less well-targeted ads can still be sold but aren’t worth as much), but it will meaningfully impact them. Most high level Facebook employees have significant amounts of Facebook stock. Even the implication that Facebook’s ad revenue will decrease is going to lower their stock price. So of course they are going to try to prevent this change- if it becomes permanent they are taki…

>if it becomes permanent they are taking a hit to their retirement savings.

This would be amazing. Imagine all the talent that would be freed into real problems.

BTW: I remember while working in the financial sector, in the financial bubble, how terrified they were if markets were to be corrected, like they did.

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