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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#461

Post by Spooky23 »

vsareto wrote: post #234
wcunning wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Rudy also had a cybersecurity company and was named as a cybersecurity advisor. Would that help Dominion's side that this wasn't just crazy beliefs on Giuliani's part and be in favor of actual malice?

Giuliani explicitly and repeatedly asserted that he was working in the capacity of the president’s personal attorney. There was no ambiguity with respect for his role.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#462

Post by JshWright »

yters wrote: post #445
JshWright wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly lack a fundamental understanding of the issues involved here... The voting process used by the Dominion machines involves a physical paper trail that is verified by the voter. Random sampling is done routinely comparing the electronically tabulated results against the paper audit log. In the case of Georgia, a full recount (by hand) was done on the paper ballots.

Seems trivial to 'randomly' sample a select subset of the votes. And that does nothing to guard against vote dumps. Non existent voters cannot validate their votes. Do you know where the Dominion validation process is clearly documented so it is easy to see whether it is easily subverted? I will bet the answer is no, and the software and hardware are all trade secrets and impossible for voters to verify :D. Sounds li…

It is not "Dominion's" process, it is the local board of election's process. All Dominion supplies are fancy printers and optical scanners.

The verification process in Georgia involved physically counting all of the paper ballots. The Dominion machines were totally uninvolved in the hand-recount (and, unsurprisingly, the hand-recount found that the original machine tally was extremely accurate)

Again, I think it's pretty clear you don't understand what role the machines actually play in the voting process.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#463

Post by arminiusreturns »

useerup wrote: post #334
arminiusreturns wrote: post #265

This is hn and we should recognize the inherent weakness in electronic voting machines for the blatant issue it is. That said, the primary retort I keep seeing is something along the lines of "well, but these produce an auditable paper ballot". So my question is this: How much of those auditable trails have actually been audited, in what places, and in what numbers (I don't think spot checks will suffice to reassure…

The entire state of Georgia. where Guiliani alledged that votes were "switched" by Dominion machines, were in fact hand counted and affirmed the machine-counted tally. Even after the hand-count clearly confirmed that the machines had not switched any votes, Guiliani spread the same lie. This is actually documented in the suit. Mind you, it is not that the vote-tally machines leave a paper audit trail. The vote-tally…

> This is actually documented in the suit.

Ah ty, this is what I was wondering, I figured the outrage was mostly posturing but still want to approach the issue outside of that drama. I mostly want to see where the audit results are published.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#464

Post by aw1621107 »

lettergram wrote: post #423
Pxtl wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A plethora of court cases disagree with you.

~None~ Many were not discussed on merits. See link: http://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Election/2020_Election_Cases.ht... Many are still active (~30) Edit: correction

That link contradicts you. If you take its contents at face value, there were multiple cases decided on merits.

If anything, I can see the potential for an argument to be made that that that site's definition of "decided on merits" is too narrow. For example, depositions were submitted in Law v. Whitmer, significant parts of the decision were dedicated specifically to discussing the merits of the case, and the conclusion specifically says that the plaintiffs failed to meet their burden of proof, but that case is listed as "Decided on Merits: NO".

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#465

Post by jamiesonbecker »

wvenable wrote: post #434
xerxespoy wrote: post #373

Be great for threads like these if HN had both: 1) A block function so we could cut the massively-upvoted, one-sided comments and get to the impartial or contrary information buried underneath them. 2) A "unfade" button to see the massively-downvoted comments. I've generally found when threads take on this imbalanced and highly-polarised state, the stuff on the top isn't the cream.

I see no reason to provide additional support for threads with limited value to the HN community. If you want to discuss politics or general news there are plenty of sites for that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this entire posting is literally a discussion of politics/general news.

The tone of "I see no reason.. limited value" seems a bit condescending to what appears to be a sizable portion of HN that values intelligent debate, and there can be no debate with only one viewpoint.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#466

Post by javagram »

yters wrote: post #445
JshWright wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly lack a fundamental understanding of the issues involved here... The voting process used by the Dominion machines involves a physical paper trail that is verified by the voter. Random sampling is done routinely comparing the electronically tabulated results against the paper audit log. In the case of Georgia, a full recount (by hand) was done on the paper ballots.

Seems trivial to 'randomly' sample a select subset of the votes. And that does nothing to guard against vote dumps. Non existent voters cannot validate their votes. Do you know where the Dominion validation process is clearly documented so it is easy to see whether it is easily subverted? I will bet the answer is no, and the software and hardware are all trade secrets and impossible for voters to verify :D. Sounds li…

> Seems trivial to 'randomly' sample a select subset of the votes. And that does nothing to guard against vote dumps. Non existent voters cannot validate their votes.

Incorrect. Voter rolls have information about who voted, and this information is public record. You can simply call up a random sample of recorded 2020 voters in Georgia and ask them to confirm that they voted in the election.

There is no way to undetectably insert additional fake paper ballots (“vote dumps”) unless you are alleging a vast conspiracy that removed the real paper ballots from storage after the election and replaced them with new fake ones, without any whistleblowers on the (Republican-run and Trump-supporting) elections staff speaking out.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#467

Post by HideousKojima »

triceratops wrote: post #291
tunesmith wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to…

> The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. That's a valid concern when you're dealing with a good-faith actor. But if voting machines are open-source (which I heartily support), they'll move on to baselessly discrediting something else to shape public perception. The problem isn't the technology per se. The problem is we're not dealing with…

Even if voting machine software is open source, there's no way to verify that's actually the code running on any given machine

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#468

Post by throwaway31831 »

javagram wrote: post #459
throwaway31831 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how mail-in ballots work, though. For mail-in ballots, a hand-filled ballot is scanned, and if there's a discrepancy it gets corrected then re-printed by an official in a process called adjudication. This is supposed to be done in front of an observer from both parties so security checks like signature matching can be performed, which was not done as evidenced in the Fulton county video footage. Mail-in vo…

Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems? Mail-in ballots work the same way they have since 1864. You fill out a paper ballot and mail it back. > Biden only won 16% of counties. Only a few key counties need to be targeted to flip a national election. 16% of counties - when more than half the US population lives in just 4.6% of the counties. Remember that many counties are ne…

> Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems?

Mail-in ballots get counted by machines.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#469

Post by chrisco255 »

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently.

Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as easy to detect fraud in an election as it is with say, a double entry banking record.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#470

Post by starik36 »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #453
javagram wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. Why would their code matter? Far more important than the code is the paper ballot audit trail their machines produce. And that audit trail has been audited by multiple states, run by both Republicans and Democrats, after the election and found to be fl…

It's also quite interesting that Democrats have tried multiple times in the past two Congresses to provide for election security laws, with mandatory paper ballots AND standard auditing, and yet Republicans refused to bring any of those bills to the floor in the Senate.

The situation will be reversed for the next 2 years. Just watch.
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