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I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

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Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#451

Post by gaius »

hobs wrote: post #282
shostack wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are painting with an overly broad brush. Where I work, our Support Heroes (yes, we call them Heroes because the lengths they go to for our customers are heroic) are one of the main reasons so many of our customers love us and stick with us so long. You've probably heard that it can cost ~5x more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one. An exceptional Customer Support team is your front line in fight…

I disagree. You are using your company as a counter example to all other companies, and you admit that in your last sentence. I am glad your company treats your people right, and it bodes well for your EVERYTHING. I have worked at a dozen or so support jobs, and no matter how much the customers stayed because of the support team or how much we drove the value our clients got out of the product, we always were a cost…

support/helpdesk job position is reviled for a reason, and the reason is that it is an unforgiving job with little acknowledgement, pay, or chance for promotion

It's not just the helldesk. Even an experienced, senior level sysadmin, if they are doing their jobs well, even if what they do is absolutely critical to the company, upper management won't even be aware of their existence.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#452

Post by sangnoir »

kziojzwsndppqgg wrote: post #407
mikeash wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple happens to have good design and happens to be totalitarian, but I don't think the one comes from the other. Apple used to be a lot less awful in this respect, but their design and usability was still great (arguably better than today).

> Apple used to be a lot less awful in this respect, but their design and usability was still great (arguably better than today). It's interesting that you say that because from everything I've heard talking to people I work with and in other departments who have been here a while, the opposite is true. The conventional thought is at least over the past 2 years or so, the stress has gotten lower. Most of this is from…

That's an unfortunate side effect if the culture they developed, whereby quality correlates with the amount of whipcracking.

A lot of job adverts have "must be self-motivated" (which I thought was a load of bollocks) but it seems self-motivation has been largely extinguished at Apple (by design or accident)

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#453

Post by unchocked »

dragonwriter wrote: post #314
mark-r wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out California code 2870 which basically says anything you work on at home, on your own time, using your own equipment, and not related to your employers line of business, is yours. The company can still fire you for your side business though.

When checking out California Labor Code section 2870, also remember to check out California Labor Code section 2871, which expressly states that the restriction in 2870 does not limit the employer's right to require the employee to provide confidential disclosure of inventions during the employee's term of employment, and also to require a review process by the employer to "determine such issues as may arise" related…

Sure, but I imagine the consequences of noncompliance are limited to you being fired.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#454

Post by rogerdickey »

Why 900 upvotes? This reads like a vengeful laundry list of excuses for essentially being fired, written by a low-performing, poor-culture-fit middle manager from an exceptionally dysfunctional team at what otherwise might be a great company. I've never worked there so can't say.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#455

Post by pfortuny »

exelius wrote: post #24

But... the author worked in customer support, managing agents. Customer support in any company is like this: it's full of bobblehead managers who make work to justify their own jobs. It's a cost center, and cost centers are where you put executives who are capable, but not exceptional. This is why OP has stories about how firing people was considered heroic -- when you work in a cost center, the only thing the busine…

And how does this stop the company from being Apple, "innovative, changing people's lifes, etc...?" Just because it is "just" customer support it does not imply it is not Apple.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#456

Post by huu »

justin66 wrote: post #283
astrodust wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The optimal arrangement for both companies is no poaching. As soon as someone pulls the trigger and starts poaching it gets exponentially more expensive for these companies to operate. This is the Prisoner's Dilemma, plain and simple.

> This is the Prisoner's Dilemma, plain and simple. It's not really, but that is an enlightening comparison. Using the prisoner's dilemma as an analogy for this hiring situation, the employees aren't players (prisoners, if you prefer) at all. Which is exactly the problem.

I think the Tragedy of the Commons is a more apt analogy. There's a finite resource (employees) which optimally benefits each company if they were non-competitive. As soon as they start shortening the supply of that resource (in this case, making it more and more costly to obtain the resource), then it becomes a race to the bottom.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#457

Post by shostack »

brightsize wrote: post #432
jenius wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, really impressive that he was able to guess the company. That seems super crazy to me. I guess I'd better check out SmugMug if it's that above and beyond!

I immediately guessed Smugmug as well. I've been a customer for ~4 years now, and the few times I've needed their help, it's been nothing short of phenomenal. Support tickets answered in minutes by people clearly knowledgeable (if not experts) on the platform. Smugmug is a wonderful service, and would be fully worth the price even without such high levels of CS, so I wonder what motivates them to excel in that area?

If we could answer in seconds we would.

What motivates us to excel in that area? If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say there are two main reasons...

First, we view our support and our product as two sides of the same coin. We are immensely proud of what we've accomplished at SmugMug, and it simply would not enter the thoughts of the caliber of people who work here to have an awesome product and mediocre support.

Second, and more to the point, photos and photography are intensely personal pursuits and businesses warranting equally personal service. Whether we are protecting customers' memories and art or enabling them to live the dream as a pro photographer, they need to know they can rely on us no matter what when things hit the fan (as they unfortunately do on occasion).

That trust is a non-negotiable part of our relationship with our customers, and our Heroes are amazing at earning it through every ticket they help with, large or small.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#458

Post by golergka »

kagamine wrote: post #448
visarga wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first time in the last ten years, I have downgraded my OS to 10.9 after having a disastrous experience with 10.10. I don't plan on upgrading back, at least not on this computer.

It's when your Linux distro on a 5 year old HP laptop seems more polished than your 27" iMac from 2 years ago that you begin to wonder what has gone wrong at Apple. Two days ago I said aloud to a screen " , OS X is turning into Windows".

And by Windows, you probably mean your memory of when you last used it as a main OS.

I moved to OS X 5 years ago, and recently I realised that a lot of my assumptions about Windows are no longer true. Now, I contemplate moving back.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#459

Post by bluerail »

hobs wrote: post #282
shostack wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are painting with an overly broad brush. Where I work, our Support Heroes (yes, we call them Heroes because the lengths they go to for our customers are heroic) are one of the main reasons so many of our customers love us and stick with us so long. You've probably heard that it can cost ~5x more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one. An exceptional Customer Support team is your front line in fight…

I disagree. You are using your company as a counter example to all other companies, and you admit that in your last sentence. I am glad your company treats your people right, and it bodes well for your EVERYTHING. I have worked at a dozen or so support jobs, and no matter how much the customers stayed because of the support team or how much we drove the value our clients got out of the product, we always were a cost…

Well put, I totally agree with you. I've worked in support team at two MNCs, and now being a developer now I can guarantee that there exists an really thick border between the two sects..

The differentiation is so deep, even the frequency of outings and the places they take you vary. The work timing differs, shift timing differs, perks differs. After all, the people who make things are revenue generators for the co, and we were nothing but easily replaceable pieces.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#460

Post by kagamine »

golergka wrote: post #458
kagamine wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's when your Linux distro on a 5 year old HP laptop seems more polished than your 27" iMac from 2 years ago that you begin to wonder what has gone wrong at Apple. Two days ago I said aloud to a screen " , OS X is turning into Windows".

And by Windows, you probably mean your memory of when you last used it as a main OS. I moved to OS X 5 years ago, and recently I realised that a lot of my assumptions about Windows are no longer true. Now, I contemplate moving back.

Well I use Windows daily as a dev at a MS Partnered company but you are still correct in that when I said OSX is turning into Win I was thinking of the XP/Vista era. I am not a huge fan of either 7 or 8 tbh, but that is acknowledged as a personal preference in much the same way as I sold a practical commuter car to buy something "i like driving more".

The problem with OSX now, as I see it, is that as Windows irons out the problems that made *nix users dislike it, OSX seems to be allowing those problems (both engineering and usability) to creep in.

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