Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#451

Post by jmull » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #381

jmull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, this is very tough. I think the problem is (and I very much hope I am wrong!) that an outbreak will occur and your university will still have the financial problems. And also some more sick and dead people. (All from a US perspective) There's been a crazy notion floating around from the start on this, that we can either keep our normal activities/economy (jobs, businesses, schools, etc) or deal with the pandemic…

Nope, even with 100% lockdown, it still spreads because we aren’t an island country. It even got to Auckland now, through freight! You can only delay the inevitable (unless a vaccine is developed in the next few months)

This isn’t a binary thing: spread or no spread.

You will have spread no matter what you do. The question is how much.

If prevalence of the virus is high, then the risk of spread is higher. At a high level of prevalence any systematically repeating and mixing groupings of people (such as school) is pretty much guaranteed to lead to an outbreak, which will stop or at least seriously disrupt and hinder that system (not to mention the sick and dead people from the outbreak).

At a low level or prevalence outbreaks will still occur, but only here and there. Some schools will have outbreaks and have to stop, but most will be able to keep going.

Widely available tests with fast turnaround is also part of this because it allows outbreaks to be detected earlier, when they are much smaller, which limits the disruption each outbreak causes (not to mention the deaths and sickness).

The point of all this is to have most of our normal activities and economy until a safe and effective vaccine is widely available.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#452

Post by alchemism » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

__sisyphus__ wrote: post #441

alchemism wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot say it was any specific fact or technique I learned. I would say it gave me access to an additional mindset which my colleagues did not possess. It ended up being a powerful ‘soft’ asset in a transition to engineering management, by virtue of being the staffmember able to identify and resolve problems which originated in cultural and linguistic domains. One does not need IR training to (say) socially enginee…

So, anecdotally, my degree was in philosophy and math, but I now work as a programmer. Yes, semi-related, but coincidentally, really. And I think this is probably the case for you as well (at least, I would guess). This forms what I think is the underlying thread here. For those that aren't as flexible and creative in applying their talents and education, most of these classes really do end up being useless, and for…

I agree that a certain aptitude or predisposition could be responsible for it.

There is another aspect which I will add: the ‘softest’ parts of the liberal arts curriculum — International Relations would fit here — was until recently reserved for aristocrats. The children of farmers and factory workers would ostensibly have no use in learning The Great Game. The best players of the game are those who need no employment.

Those of us from anything but the uppermost classes back then would be stumbling into the edges of a world they can dimly perceive, to serve as clerks at best.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#453

Post by bumby » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 1:58 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #443

bumby wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can but it can also expose you to a lot of different cultures and experiences outside your comfort zones. Like anything else, it’s somewhat incumbent on the individual to engage those experiences.

You may he stationed away, but exposire to many cultures is likely a bit of stretch. It is exposure in very specific way. (If you are in navy, you have some free time to shop and drink once in few months.) Soldiers does not exactly have reputation for understanding tolerance for different cultures. And it is not in your individual controll to engage with experiences or not. Being soldier is opposite of making individ…

I think this is just one area where we disagree. Sometimes I think people assume all deployments are to combat zones which is not the case. Even in combat deployments, a larger portion of time is spent on humanitarian missions than people realize.

I don’t know your age or experience, but what you said doesn’t ring true to me. If you’re deployed to a non-combat zone you don’t just get a day off every couple weeks. You have liberty most nights and weekends, at least if you’re not actually stationed on a ship.

It’s no different than college. You can be the person who just holes up and plays video games, or just go out in the same groups without exposing yourself to different ideas, or you can get out of your comfort zone. I’ve known people who made the most of their free time by regularly volunteering in local clinics/emergency rooms, lived outside of base in the city with locals, exposed themselves to local culture etc. There’s more freedom than many think. And this is coming from lower enlisted ranks of one of the branches with a reputation of being more disciplined and strict.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#454

Post by impendia » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #442

impendia wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work as a professor at the University of South Carolina. I suspect that my employer, as well as similar universities, will be more-or-less okay. To be sure, there will be pain . Faculty hiring, for example, will take a huge hit -- I feel bad for everyone finishing up grad school and postdocs now, and who was anticipating hitting the academic job market. In addition, there might be layoffs of tenured faculty, and/or…

Definitely surprised to find another Gamecock on HN. I'm a recent grad myself - perhaps one of you students? I'm curious: under what conditions do you think the threat to Carolina (and other similar regional flagship schools) becomes "existential"? E.g. classes go online for the Fall semester sometime in Spring, with little hope of reopening the campus for Spring. Forever to thee.

> I'm curious: under what conditions do you think the threat to Carolina (and other similar regional flagship schools) becomes "existential"?

In my opinion, when long-term demand for a traditional university education shows signs that it will significantly decline.

I just don't think we've seen it yet. (Nor have we seen severe short-term decline in demand. Enrollment is down less than I was expecting.) There are a variety of competitors such as edX, Coursera, etc., as well as university-affiliated "startups" such as SNHU's massive online program. For the most part they haven't caught on that much, and I don't think they will.

As tuition keeps rising, it will squeeze out smaller, less prestigious, and more expensive private schools that offer (in my opinion) questionable value for money. But I'd expect many of these students to choose state schools instead.

All this said, I don't have all that much insider knowledge, just strong opinions. :)

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#455

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

ketamine__ wrote: post #415

justin66 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comment was that the students are at risk. Someone shows you that they're not at risk, and you pivot to danger to "townsfolk". Assuming they're not stupid, evil, or politically conservative, the students are probably concerned about the risk of spreading the illness and the attendant harm that could cause, as well as what it could do to themselves.

Perhaps they think those at risk should exercise some responsibility of their own and quarantine at home? Is it a human right to have a job, venture to the grocery store, and see friends and family?

[deleted]

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#456

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

ketamine__ wrote: post #415

justin66 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comment was that the students are at risk. Someone shows you that they're not at risk, and you pivot to danger to "townsfolk". Assuming they're not stupid, evil, or politically conservative, the students are probably concerned about the risk of spreading the illness and the attendant harm that could cause, as well as what it could do to themselves.

Perhaps they think those at risk should exercise some responsibility of their own and quarantine at home? Is it a human right to have a job, venture to the grocery store, and see friends and family?

[deleted]

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#457

Post by maire » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #298

maire wrote: post #234

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There are less expensive ways to get the social experience of college. My husband and I both worked our way through college. I didn't get the social experience at school. There is nothing like working for your degree to keep you laser focused on the reason why you are going to college. We were both reasonably paid for working class jobs as he was a machinist and I was an electronic technician. Post graduate was so mu…

I'm pretty sure most/all the people who think that college gives you a unique social experience that you can't get elsewhere are just suffering from confirmation bias, and also perhaps want to justify why they spent so much money. I went to a top-tier 4-year university, and did develop several life-long friendships, many of which have led to introductions to other people, which have further increased my social and pr…

If you work in Silicon Valley you will make friends that will pull you from company to company. All of the companies I worked for in my career (except 1) I got a call from a friend.

The one exception was they knew about me even though I didn't know about them. Halfway through one of my interviews I realized that I knew the interviewer by reputation.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Post by spbaar » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #408

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

You won't change the education issues in the US at the very top of the pyramid. The problems with US education begin at day 1 of kindergarten and the complete balkanization of curriculums both from state to state and often between different school districts in the same state.

There wasn't even a coherent line throughout elementary and middle school in Orange County. One year, 1/3 of our curriculum was geology, which was 90% of what we covered last year. More flabbergasted than concerned. It was more stressful because I was nervous about which classes were going to be hard and which easy and then that curve ball comes along and i dont know what to think!

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#459

Post by monadic2 » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

darkwizard42 wrote: post #434

mensetmanusman wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, even with 100% lockdown, it still spreads because we aren’t an island country. It even got to Auckland now, through freight! You can only delay the inevitable (unless a vaccine is developed in the next few months)

Yeah you aren't trying to get it to 0% rate... you are trying to reduce it to a traceable and manageable amount... Kind of missing the point of what it means to "get it under control"

0% sounds pretty good to me....

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#460

Post by bluntfang » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #105

bob33212 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value offered by colleges is not just an education. It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ). There is virtually no demand for online only classes above a 5k/year price point. There is a similar situation with private schools. Some of the demand comes from the fact that it is also a babysitting service, forced social gr…

It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ) I’m in university right now. I just finished a term of online classes. I’ve definitely witnessed those benefits being enjoyed by other students but I haven’t had the time to enjoy them myself; my program is simply too difficult for that. The most I’ve enjoyed is going out for drinks…

this reminds me of the scene in the movie Booksmart where the nerdy girls who did nothing but study and work towards their academic dreams found out all the "dumb" party kids also got into top tier schools while also having fun.