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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#381

Post by mensetmanusman »

jmull wrote: post #176
jimmar wrote: post #106

I'm a professor at a regional university. Not a big name school, but we have about 5,000 students. We would be bankrupt if we told students we'd only be offering classes online this fall because students, by an overwhelming majority, want the in-person experience. We know we would lose enrollment if we went fully online this fall, and the drop would be significant enough for the university to declare bankruptcy. Harv…

Man, this is very tough. I think the problem is (and I very much hope I am wrong!) that an outbreak will occur and your university will still have the financial problems. And also some more sick and dead people. (All from a US perspective) There's been a crazy notion floating around from the start on this, that we can either keep our normal activities/economy (jobs, businesses, schools, etc) or deal with the pandemic…

Nope, even with 100% lockdown, it still spreads because we aren’t an island country. It even got to Auckland now, through freight! You can only delay the inevitable (unless a vaccine is developed in the next few months)

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#382

Post by paconbork »

kidfood wrote: post #187
toomuchtodo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UIUC in Champaign/Urbana (Illinois) is still bringing everyone back to campus. A friend just moved his son into the dorms this week.

Not everyone, most classes are still online, and if you want you can not take any in person classes, even for lower tuition. Many of my friends are opting to stay home next semester.

Another interesting detail is the mandatory twice-a-week testing for anybody who will be on campus (and of course, mandatory facemasks). If you're going to have people on campus that's probably the safest way to do it

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#383

Post by mensetmanusman »

0xffff2 wrote: post #162
chongli wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ) I’m in university right now. I just finished a term of online classes. I’ve definitely witnessed those benefits being enjoyed by other students but I haven’t had the time to enjoy them myself; my program is simply too difficult for that. The most I’ve enjoyed is going out for drinks…

>The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. I disagree completely. Some people are just inhumanly capable of balancing everything. One of the smartest people I met while in school was in a sorority and partied hard . She was also extremely successful acade…

Ya, that’s an outlier, over a quarter of people drop out of college because they can’t handle following directions.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#384

Post by mensetmanusman »

Townley wrote: post #151
chrisjarvis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your son wants to be there in person and he is at no danger from the coronavirus... EDIT: *infinitesimal danger

You have no reason to believe that their son wants to be there in person. The son may share their parents' safety concerns And claiming that coronavirus poses "no danger" is simply untrue. You can claim that the danger is over-stated, but young adults can and do get COVID-19

You may be confusing anecdotes with statistics.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#385

Post by mensetmanusman »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #154
matz1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if its outbreak? Why afraid? We know by now that vast majority of people will be fine.

Culling the herd of the weak is probably not the college experience most people are looking for.

Isn’t that why 25% drop off after the first year? They move on to jobs that take 10-20 years off of their life spans (manual trades, high stess, etc.)

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#386

Post by mxcrossb »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #214
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

> so-called useless degrees. Yea no more pesky English majors and philosophy students who bring up all sorts of annoying questions about the power structures that create our society. Can't we just stop thinking about stuff and get back to work! I'm also hoping that CS will be transformed into something more useful, thinking about complexity theory is a waste of time (outside of helping us make good white boarding que…

I strongly agree with you. I know many people whose whole views on religion, politics, society were changed through their humanities courses at university. Personally I gained a deeper knowledge of history, a love of art, and a real interest in ethics just from my mandatory general education courses (I was a CS major).

Now imagine you remove that knowledge from the adults of your country. You remove that knowledge from heads of industry, community leaders, and voters. What kind of society are you left with? College needs to be expanded to all with an emphasis on the liberal arts, a high school education just isn’t good enough to produce a good society.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#387

Post by thelean12 »

breck wrote: post #193
JoshTko wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the only way this would work long term is if students on campus don't go to bars to parties?

Or it may work because there’s close to zero chance of dying for college students, and we have far more immune people now than we did back in the spring. Sweden’s numbers are looking very interesting right now.

Why are you ignoring spread?

College students can easily spread it to vulnerable populations.

1. Some live at home.

2. Some will go shopping. Some in places without mask mandates.

3. Older professors and staff (custodial, food services, advisors) will be pressured to work (you probably can't just say "I'm not teaching" without quitting).

4. Some may need to use public transit to get to the school. Again also in some places without mask mandates.

5. And of course, some students are vulnerable. Many schools are not allowing remote work when they open.

Add in dorms being super spreader environments and you've got disasters waiting to happen.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#388

Post by ptero »

beaner wrote: post #274
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

> I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world

I think while the correlation may be weaker than what some claim, it is still there. To put it another way, I have seen very few cases of students who hated the field, were force-fed it and then would turn it a successful career. And a few that would do that tend to look for opportunities to change course. Being really interested in a subject is a great encouragement to acquire deep knowledge, not just a good grade. And such deep knowledge can bring benefits for the rest of the life.

As an example: I have a PhD in math but "tossed it" and went to work writing software and algorithms. My employers never cared about my PhD. I never used much of the "PhD" math I learned in grad school and I probably forgot most of it. Computing a homology group? Topological entropy? Forget it.

But was the PhD a waste? I do not think so! As a side effect of being in grad school, teaching undergrad classes and arguing with friends doing math and physics I became friends with many fields and learned techniques that still serve me well. So definitely no regrets for me for spending 5 years learning things I did not directly use afterwards.

I do agree with your last point -- we should not be telling students that anything they study will lead them to success after graduation. They should choose a field with some applications. But among the multitude of such fields they should choose one they genuinely like. My 2c.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#389

Post by mxcrossb »

celnardur wrote: post #99

I feel like I can offer a unique perspective on this because I go to Notre Dame and we are just finishing the first week of classes with everyone back on campus. It's gone alright so far. All the cases so far have been traced back to off campus bars or parties. However, I expect it to get worse soon as cases start spreading on campus. If you want to see how Notre Dame is doing with cases and testing we have a dashboa…

This just points to the absurdity of the whole situation. I mean in what world should bars be open and universities closed? It’s a complete failure of priorities.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#390

Post by brendawalsh »

glofish wrote: post #358
Daishiman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of immunocompromised and obese students and a lot of senior professors and staff.

but is that reason good enough to take away everyone's right to go to college? here is where personal responsibility comes into play. If you are concerned stay home. The university and laws should support you. But the solution is not to punish everyone else, that won't work long term. The sooner people realize that the better. Limiting and collectively taking away people's rights will cause far more trouble long term…

Nobody has a right to go to college.
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