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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#61
post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

> I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again.

I'd be surprised if that happened. Stanford's in a heavily populated part of California. It might make sense for them, based on the student population (mostly rich or at least well off) and location. My university has plans to keep students in campus housing even if we're forced to go 100% online, and I think from a public health perspective, that's a good thing. You don't want college students moving around if you have an outbreak. And once they're home, they're definitely not going to all just sit in the basement - they'll still be going to bars and parties. That would be a disaster. And the only place that there's hope they'll be tested or interact with others that are tested is on campus.

> My son's state university is forcing students to return in person.

That's horrible. As much as possible, we're accommodating students that feel safer online. About the only way I could see someone being forced to return is if their remaining credits were a lab science class. The worst thing you can possibly do is increase the density on campus. Everyone here is encouraged to work off campus as much as possible. Many of our courses are online or hybrid, where you reserve the in-person interactions for the parts where it delivers real value over the alternative. It's that 20% where face to face matters, not the other 80%.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#62
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is deciding to work a trade instead of going to Stanford.

Do you not see programming as a trade? Do you not see accounting as a trade? Nursing? Medicine? Law? Pharmacology? I would consider all of those “trades.” The non-trade courses of study aren’t particularly popular with college students anymore. I don’t know many people with degrees in english or latin or history or philosophy. And the few that I do always planned to go to trade school (law school) so their undergrad…

I would not count them as trades, because people typically talk about trades when they talk about work that requires manual or mechanical skills.

I never seen anyone talk about medicine as a trade nor mean doctor when they said trade.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#63
post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

So what if its outbreak? Why afraid? We know by now that vast majority of people will be fine.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#64

Let the college kids get sick. They are extremely unlikely to have any serious effects from covid. At least on a college campus they won’t infect older family members. Herd immunity on campus would be reached very quickly. The few with serious preexisting conditions can stay home until that happens. The level of fear is frankly ridiculous. People get sick and people die. One day, we will all die. That is the human co…

Do you have sources saying the fatality rate is capped at 1%?

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Stanford students are even capable of working a trade?

I'd wager most of them

Whether they'd be willing or not is another matter. I know a few though, people that have very high levels of secondary education working trades or other simple jobs because it keeps their stress levels down.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#66

Let the college kids get sick. They are extremely unlikely to have any serious effects from covid. At least on a college campus they won’t infect older family members. Herd immunity on campus would be reached very quickly. The few with serious preexisting conditions can stay home until that happens. The level of fear is frankly ridiculous. People get sick and people die. One day, we will all die. That is the human co…

They are relatively unlikely to _die_ from COVID-19 (and please do not repeat the false claim that these are only “people already on the cusp of death” - the average victim is losing at least a decade of life based on actuarial data) but we know that there are a much greater percentage of people who will experience significant health problems, potentially with life-long impacts.

Similarly, not everyone on or near campus is a health 19 year old and not every college student can afford to live in their own apartment or with a few healthy roommates. Universities have large numbers of staff of all ages, and no college town functions without a similar all-ages mix of people living near those students. The entire reason why there's so much pressure to re-open is because the lack of federal support means that city and state governments (at least 30 of the states have recent laws preventing them from running a budget deficit during a crisis) are desperate for the revenue generated by those students, and that is another way of saying that lots of people are literally banking on having those students be in contact with a fair chunk of the local economy.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#67

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Trades have been more lucrative than many liberal arts-esque jobs for decades. Awareness isn’t the issue. The issue is social acceptability.

Until plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. stop being a part of the undesirable Other to middle and upper middle class Americans, nothing will change. Paying $100,000 for your kid to study underwater basket weaving at Harvard is still socially superior to running a multi-million dollar business in the trades. It is a problem of culture, not economics.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#68
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but there are outbreaks of everything at the beginning of the school year, at all levels. Flu, mono, the clap. It's why you're supposed to be up to date on your vaccinations. It's just what happens when a bunch of people who've been in separate microbiomes come together and start sharing the same air.

Freshers’ flu we used to call it. And everyone getting physical in the first couple of weeks means it spreads very quickly.

I was sick most of my freshman year. Went to school halfway across the country. Entirely new set of viruses versus what I was used to.

Happens to people who move to different countries too.

Common enough in basic training that it's got a nickname as well. https://afwm.org/life-during-bmt/bmt-illnesses/

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#69
post #15
post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

Stanford cancelling on-campus education definitely feels like a major bellwether. It's hard to think of any school better positioned to make it work. Not just because of its wealth and elite status, but because the climate is so aggressively warm and non-rainy, and the spacious campus absolutely has the space (though perhaps not the seating/tables, at least initially) to accommodate all-outdoor classes and activities…

Stanford and a number of the well positioned universities can weather the storm, which is why the are cancelling in person after hoping not to. https://www.profgalloway.com/uss-university

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#70

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

I don't know why people use HVAC as a boilerplate example of working-class work.

Jobs come from where the booms are. Unless there's an HVAC boom, why would you anticipate a surge in HVAC workers?

Not a criticism/denial of your larger point, just an observation about that point specifically.

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