Ten years ago the sentiment was to not https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=567115 and I found that very offensive for some reason at the time. It is good to see the HN community very much for learning at work now.
Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
451–460 of 467 posts
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've started using Friday as a "personal development" day at work. I do not write any code on Friday (unless it's a severe production level issue). Instead, I spend the mornings reviewing PRs that I wasn't included on (to keep up with whats happening, but also to learn more about how other people write and review code) and the afternoons are spent reading/researching/online classes. This has really helped me avoid bu…
'Great Thoughts Friday' from Richard Hamming https://youtu.be/a1zDuOPkMSw
Slightly better video and sound (from the same source material):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3msMuwqp-o&list=PLctkxgWNSR...
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've done my stint in "large enterprise". It's a whole new world there where management believe that if projects aren't on track, then the solution is more meetings, more agile training and in-house "coaches", and even more micromanaging. I'm no longer in that world, and I'll never go back.
As someone that has also worked for large enterprises as well as government, I’d say that using agile can be another way to micromanage, but it can also be used in a way that improves product quality and impact while helping developers. Generally, I’ve found that the level to which agile approaches make life better depends on how much management is actually willing to let the team do its work and stay empowered. This…
By top cover, do you mean managers shielding lower level employees? That was my experience at a mid-size finance firm,
it was only possible for my team do to decent work because my team lead was fairly competent at keeping the
higher-ups up at bay.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone that has also worked for large enterprises as well as government, I’d say that using agile can be another way to micromanage, but it can also be used in a way that improves product quality and impact while helping developers. Generally, I’ve found that the level to which agile approaches make life better depends on how much management is actually willing to let the team do its work and stay empowered. This…
By top cover, do you mean managers shielding lower level employees? That was my experience at a mid-size finance firm, it was only possible for my team do to decent work because my team lead was fairly competent at keeping the higher-ups up at bay.
Precisely.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
Voice of experience: Companies are incapable of thinking this way. Instead, take the 40 and simply siphon off 8-10 for your personal education. As long as you're not actually working for a different company during this time, it's all good. If company doesn't like it, move on.
...some bigger learning projects require more time or different rhythms from what can be made available through siphoning off time, which seems to be what most people in this thread are saying they're doing. For example, if you're doing daily standups, then one hour of an 8-hour workday is doable. But if you want to learn something that requires from time to time that you concentrate deeply for a longer period of tim…
You're right, and I would never work at a place with daily standups (for that reason among others).
Instead: (1) Here are your priorities. (2) Tell me if you run into any blockers. (3) Let the team periodically know what they need to about what you're working on.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
By 'enlightenment' I'm referring to a particular worldview perpetuated to denigrate the Western tradition and broader philosophical outlook in favor of a focus on empirical sciences and radically egalitarian social mores. The basic idea of 'enlightenment' is there is no objective and learnable purpose to the natural world and human society, and instead once we learn how to manipulate the natural world we can subject…
It's strangely refreshing to see this particular criticism of the Enlightenment; I'm much more accustomed to hearing criticisms from the postmodernist direction. I disagree with your statement in a previous post that their arguments are incoherent, particularly the early exponents like Foucault or some of the Frankfurt school. I'd also point out that much of the Enlightenment tradition is not ontologically materialis…
In my opinion the idealistic variant of the enlightenment is conceptually not significantly different from materialism. The big thing is rejection of teleology, which also results in the radical egalitarianism since there is no longer a purposeful ordering to reality and no longer a natural law.
And yes, a teleological philosophy like scholasticism makes the most sense if we are trying to figure out the best way to live. Otherwise we just end up with the specious word game philosophy that everyone hates
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree, there is a point when having too much 'deep experience' in either BE or FE (usually BE) becomes counter-productive to performing useful work.
Then why do Google (and others) hire specifically for FE and BE roles?
I have no opinion on the issue being discussed, but the fact that Google does things a particular way is not evidence that that way is correct. It is entirely possible that Google would be better off hiring full-stack developers.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
I need to disagree with you here, I consider myself full stack, but if you were to ask, FE would be my deep experience. And for me this is perfect, I have no problems with any FE work, and the same goes for BE work. Sure, we have BE engineers with very deep experience, but I've never found myself in a position where I couldn't keep up with them. I acknowledge a lack some knowledge in BE, especially when it comes to d…
Knowledge about how the other side of the fence works doesn't suddenly make a full-stack engineer. I'm sure if we actually came up with a ratio (80/20 vs 50/50) of work it would provide a clearer understanding about when a person is FE, BE, or FE/BE. Alternatively, we could look at the type of work the individual is doing. For example, in your role are you going to be an architect doing solutions for the back-end?
It’s not just knowledge, I can actually do all the work, and yes, I could design solutions. It’s just that my real deep knowledge would be FE. But I consider myself full stack because I can do both sides without a problem.
In my team I’m just the only FE, so naturally most of that work falls on me. There are months where I only did BE stories.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like that everywhere > product guys cycle through the status of each dev team members’ items during each daily standup Something has gone horrible off the rails. Standup is supposed to be a quick time for every team member to raise any blockers primarily, with a quick "here's what I did, here's what I'm doing" type blurb. The benefit of standup is identifying blockers and if engineers are getting mired in pr…
A place where I worked got off the rails when standups were used to allow two people to work through a problem while the rest of us sit there patiently. They grew to be 45 minutes long each day. People brought chairs . To a standup!
This is where the Scrum Master should step in and move the conversation along.
Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it
#460This is why i love my current employer and i won't leave unless i'm forced to. We have a policy of "Chargeable work always comes first but if you've got nothing to do go learn something, we'll call you when something comes in" This has lead to times before where we go dead around the same time every year and you spend 2 months being paid to independently upskill. Come the busy November-February period its really obvi…
>but if you've got nothing to do I wish that was ever the case with me! One of the downsides of being part of a very small team.. there is always too much to do. But it is important to take advantage of any times where it's a little less crazy than others to continue to learn new stuff.
I think its the benefits of my sector and my teams place within it. 90% of sales get made in w46-w52 and then my team and first in a long chain to action after a deal is signed.
This means by July/August its a mad scrap to find work.