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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#441

Post by reyqn »

bayindirh wrote: post #435
reyqn wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potential users are not users, and firefox can't be that browser. Actually that browser is brave, and it also doesn't have hundred of millions of users. You can't fight defaults browsers, people don't care.

I don't get this dark/pessimistic/Firefox's so done view many people love to harp. Do we want Firefox to return, or to die? We should decide and act accordingly. Telling Firefox to not to move and get out of the place where it currently is a great contradiction in itself. Many potential Chrome users were not users, and now they are. You can change public opinion by putting your money where your mouth is, and being pe…

Many potential Chrome users were not users, and then android happened. I'll believe firefox has a shot to become mainstream when they do something similar. Until them, keep your users or alienate them and disappear.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#442

Post by godelski »

mr_machine wrote: post #432
godelski wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core Nah, the problem is people just want to hate on Mozilla. I mean even that Mastadon thread they bring up people hating on Mozilla for accepting crypto donations and are equating it to putting a miner in the browser. Like what a fucking joke. It's such a crazy exaggeration of what actually happened. Comp…

> people just want to hate on Firefox While that may describe a few people, I don't think it fairly characterizes the backlash at all. I want to love on Firefox. I've been using it since before it was "Firefox." I've championed it among co-workers and friends tirelessly. But over time, Firefox has become more and more unlovable, getting softer on privacy, altering settings in updates, foisting 'experiments' off on us…

  > I don't think it fairly characterizes the backlash at all.
People are saying LLMs are being forced on them. That's just not true. So yeah, I'm sticking with what I said.

Again, FF added shortcuts to the 5th most popular site in the world. So what. They also have shortcuts to Google, Bing, Wikipedia, and a bunch of other sites with their bangs. The split window for the chatbot sites? That's barely any bloat and you're not forced to use that. Nor is it even close to shipping you an LLM.

And the translate is completely opt-in. You have to fucking download the translations! They also aren't LLMs. They're like 50MB lol. But they're opt-in!

  > foisting 'experiments' off on us
The Mr Robot thing? Hell yeah I was pissed about that. And that's a legitimate reason to be pissed. But have they tried that again? If they learned they learned and let's move on (even with extra caution).

But if we're grabbing pitchforks for fiction then why should they care when we grab pitchforks for reality? Literally boy who cries wolf situation here and that's why I'm calling it laughable. Just as it is laughable when the OP doubled down and called the accepting of crypto donations like wearing a swastika. It is just ridiculously disingenuous and delegitimizes any serious complaints. So it is entirely counterproductive.

I'll save my pitchfork when the bullshit becomes real, not when the bullshit is based on flimsy rumors and egregious mischaracterizations. That's a witch hunt, and I don't want any part of that.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#443

Post by tliltocatl »

godelski wrote: post #439
tliltocatl wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> money (which they desperately need) True. But crypto is bad publicity and everyone knows it. At that point it's no better than going out wearing a swastika sign (sorry, Poe's law triggered) and saying it's an ancient Buddhist symbol. > No, what FF is doing is implementing features like Translate (an ALREADY opt-in feature[0]) and semantic search Did you read my comment? The problem is that this takes focus away fro…

> it's no better than going out wearing a swastika sign Come on, I'm far from a crypto fanboy but this is just making my case. It's incredibly egregious. You can call crypto a bullshit fad loved by scammers without saying anyone that accepts it is a Nazi. I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about the Wayback Machine, The EFF, or plenty of others who accept cryptocurrencies as payments. And again, to equate it t…

> This is irrelevant at this point. At this point it doesn't matter if Mozilla is evil. It doesn't matter if Mozilla is more evil than Google. Mozilla has little to no power to capitalize on that evil.

I guess that's where we disagree a lot. If Google monopolizes the web completely, it'll end up with the web dying as a relevant platform. Just like it happened with Win32 (sure, after a decade or so of constant suffering), just like it happened to minis&mainframes. Because, let's face it, being a platform monopolist isn't very profitable unless you are screwing the developers and users so hard they'll jump on the first opportunity. And it's not like the web isn't worth saving as it is now, but it is not worth saving if it is going to turn into corporate crap.

> . People grab their pitchforks to go after Mozilla at the slightest misstep and do nothing as Google tramples all over causing more damage than an evil Mozilla could even imagine. It is laughable.

People expect a lawnmower to chop off their hands if they stick one into it. People don't expect a nonprofit declaring their dedication to freedoms to chop their hands off - and not even single fingers. Yes, declaring moral superiority means you will be judged a lot.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#444

Post by phyzome »

BeetleB wrote: post #286
phyzome wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea whether any of the AI features require explicit setup vs. automatically use a paid-for API somewhere. But it also doesn't matter, because that's the kind of distinction that I've seen go back and forth elsewhere.

OK, to be frank, it seems like people are needlessly crazy paranoid. I agree with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46316763 278 comments, many very angry, and no one can clearly articulate how privacy is being compromised because of the AI features. On a project whose source is available. Insane.

Look, it's pretty simple: A bunch of companies have been shoving AI into their products without a lot of consideration for what their users actually want and need. This is a signal for current and future actions that are user-hostile, both directly involving AI and in general (indicative of their current mentality).

"Open source" doesn't help when it's a huge project and users aren't actively auditing all of the changes. (And in general we want to trust the developers; if you're having to audit all features, trust has already been lost.)

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#445

Post by m4rtink »

pera wrote: post #411
m4rtink wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non corporate VR is actually doing some interesting things - but yeah, what Meta did with it was pure garbage.

I didn't mean it as VR being useless - I'm sure it can be useful for some applications or fun for gaming - my point was that you shouldn't fear getting left behind just for not having an Apple Vision Pro app or a land in the Metaverse :) Another way to see this: Hammers can be useful, the Internet can be useful, but this doesn't mean that as a hammer manufacturer you should make your next hammer an IoT product ASAP o…

Well stated, agreed. :)

Just wanted to note that even after the bad publicity that companies like Meta (ugly avatars, unusable bland virtual spaces) or Apple (overpriced device with no software or content) have given to VR, some people tend to regard it as dead even though there is quite a vibrant user and creator community doing some incredible things (even just what people do with VRChat is amazing!). And there are even companies that seem to get it (Valve).

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#446

Post by HeckFeck »

tliltocatl wrote: post #355

I think people screaming "but AI is the future" doesn't recognize what the problem is. The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. There are a tons of "we bundled all the latest crap" Chrome forks out there. Nobody needs more those. Stop pushing bells and whistles. Give us more extensibility instead. Keep supporting v2 manifest and add more. Ther…

Every browser developer should be forced to take an annual pilgrimage to this gravestone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flock_(web_browser)

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#447

Post by godelski »

conartist6 wrote: post #428
godelski wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core Nah, the problem is people just want to hate on Mozilla. I mean even that Mastadon thread they bring up people hating on Mozilla for accepting crypto donations and are equating it to putting a miner in the browser. Like what a fucking joke. It's such a crazy exaggeration of what actually happened. Comp…

I agree that the forks are the pressure release valves here. Would strongly consider switching to a fork myself. But still I'm just wrenched by the dissonance in what new-CEO-guy said. 5 years ago or so I reported a serious bug in pointer events. If you move the mouse less than 1px the browser 5-10% of the time Firefox reports to JS that the you moved the cursor ~400pixels up and to the right or left. Honestly this b…

  >  Then he says: "to get trust back, our top priority will be working on AI features." WHAT THE FUCK WHYYYYY!?!?
I don't think adding a fucking shortcut to ChatGPT is "top priority" or even time consuming.

Did you even look at what they're calling "AI Mode" in that link? They call it "AI Window". It's the same fucking thing as the window where you can opt in to using chatbots. That's nowhere near the same thing as pushing AI on us

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#449

Post by cons0le »

yoavm wrote: post #14
joduplessis wrote: post #11

> We've been calling it the AI kill switch internally. I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name, but that's how seriously and absolutely we're taking this. Honestly, is anybody reading what's getting written anymore? If it gets taken seriously it would ship with an enable-AI button, not the other way round.

I love threads about Mozilla. New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI minority will be happy), and people blame them for not having it as an enable-switch. Whatever they do, they simply cannot win. I'm personally starting to suspect the main issue with Mozilla i…

Just saving this comment here for the future, so when he does it in 2 years I can come back and rub it in

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#450

Post by chickenimprint »

klardotsh wrote: post #319
samschooler wrote: post #23

I'm going to chime in here, I think 1. This is great and Mozilla is listening to it's core fans and 2. I want Firefox to be a competitive browser. Without AI enabled features + agent mode being first class citizens, this will be a non-starter in 2 years. I want my non-tech family members/friends to install Firefox not because I come over at Christmas, but because they want to. Because it's a browser that "just works.…

Fully disagree. I use zero so-called "AI" features in my day to day life. None. Not one. Why do I need them in my browser, and why does my browser need to focus on something that, several years into the hype wave, I still *do not use at all*? And it's not for a lack of trying, the results are just not what I need or want, and traditional browsing (and search engines, etc.) does do what I want. I'd be elated if Firefo…

You never translate any websites?
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