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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#431

Post by bayindirh »

troupo wrote: post #429
bayindirh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently disable switch is right next to AI chat bot settings. It’s pretty on your face.

Keyword: currently

They said they'll create a Bigger Red Switch (TM), so this interim solution is better than nothing, and it's going to get better.

If they're breaking their usual silence to talk about it on Mastodon via an employee/developer, they should better keep their word, because they're on a razor's edge there, and they'll be cut pretty badly if they slip on this one.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#432

Post by mr_machine »

godelski wrote: post #403
tliltocatl wrote: post #355

I think people screaming "but AI is the future" doesn't recognize what the problem is. The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. There are a tons of "we bundled all the latest crap" Chrome forks out there. Nobody needs more those. Stop pushing bells and whistles. Give us more extensibility instead. Keep supporting v2 manifest and add more. Ther…

> The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core Nah, the problem is people just want to hate on Mozilla. I mean even that Mastadon thread they bring up people hating on Mozilla for accepting crypto donations and are equating it to putting a miner in the browser. Like what a fucking joke. It's such a crazy exaggeration of what actually happened. Comp…

> people just want to hate on Firefox

While that may describe a few people, I don't think it fairly characterizes the backlash at all.

I want to love on Firefox. I've been using it since before it was "Firefox." I've championed it among co-workers and friends tirelessly. But over time, Firefox has become more and more unlovable, getting softer on privacy, altering settings in updates, foisting 'experiments' off on us, and now this AI nonsense.

I'm part of a large makerspace and have watched their market share dwindle among the nerds. Virtually no one is left.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#434

Post by MiddleEndian »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #90
gigel82 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to live in your world for a bit... I can't imagine any future where having AI in your browser is a net positive for any user. It sounds like an absolute dystopian privacy and security nightmare.

Why? Imagine you have an AI button. When you click it, the locally running LLM gets a copy of the web site in the context window, and you get to ask it a prompt, e.g. "summarize this". Imagine the browser asks you at some point, whether you want to hear about new features. The buttons offered to you are "FUCK OFF AND NEVER, EVER BOTHER ME AGAIN", "Please show me a summary once a month", "Show timely, non-modal notifi…

I like Firefox and don't think it's about to collapse like many users here, but I have already unchecked "Recommend features as you browse" and "Recommend extensions as you browse" along with setting the welcome page for updates to about:blank.

Ideally the user interface for any tool I use should never change unless I actively prompt it to change, and the only notifications I should get would be from my friends and family contacting me or calendars/alarms that I set myself.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#435

Post by bayindirh »

reyqn wrote: post #415
andrepd wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Hundreds of millions of "normies" want a browser that just "gets rid of ads and spam and stuff". If ff can be that go-to browser, they have hundreds of millions of potential users.

Potential users are not users, and firefox can't be that browser. Actually that browser is brave, and it also doesn't have hundred of millions of users. You can't fight defaults browsers, people don't care.

I don't get this dark/pessimistic/Firefox's so done view many people love to harp. Do we want Firefox to return, or to die? We should decide and act accordingly.

Telling Firefox to not to move and get out of the place where it currently is a great contradiction in itself.

Many potential Chrome users were not users, and now they are. You can change public opinion by putting your money where your mouth is, and being persistent about it.

Also, let's not forget that Firefox is kinda preventing itself being detected via standard mechanisms so global analytics show its numbers a bit low than the reality, as well.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#436

Post by braiamp »

tliltocatl wrote: post #355

I think people screaming "but AI is the future" doesn't recognize what the problem is. The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. There are a tons of "we bundled all the latest crap" Chrome forks out there. Nobody needs more those. Stop pushing bells and whistles. Give us more extensibility instead. Keep supporting v2 manifest and add more. Ther…

> The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core

No, the problem is that Mozilla needs money if they want to stop leaning off Google, and people are simply too blind by their hatred of AI that doesn't figure out that Mozilla needs money. What is giving shit loads of money right now? A-fucking-I. If their investors portfolio doesn't include AI on their products, nobody will give them even a second look, much less the funds they need. Mozilla isn't jumping on fads, it's jumping towards were money is.

You want Mozilla to stop doing that? Guarantee their moneis flow. Otherwise, you are a consumer of a free product and you don't get to decide how the free product gets financed. Luckily for you, they haven't decided to make _you_ the product.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#437

Post by braiamp »

driverdan wrote: post #75
butz wrote: post #40

Firefox should release a separate build - "base", "core", "classic" - clearly, I am not a marketing person, but idea behind it, that this is only a browser without any extra features added. No "AI", no studies, no account sync. Only bare minimum browser, that allows user to do their internet things and, if they ever desire, will install all extra bells and whistles as extensions. No need to agree to any EULA either (…

Firefox should be a browser, period. It should render pages. All other features should be extensions.

If Firefox is just a browser, it will not get any money.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#438

Post by Intermernet »

tsimionescu wrote: post #299
Intermernet wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last few decades I've seen people make the same comment about spell checking, voice recognition, video encoding, 3D rendering, audio effects and many more. I'm happy to say that LLM usage will only actually become properly integrated into background work flow when we have performant local models. People are trying to madly monetise cloud LLMs before the inevitable rise of local only LLMs severely diminishes…

Time will tell, but right now we're not solving the problem of running LLMs by increasing efficiency, we're solving it by massive, unprecedented investments in compute power and just power. Companies definitely weren't building nuclear power stations to power their spell checkers or even 3D renderers. LLMs are unprecedented in this way.

True, but the usefulness of local models is actually getting better. I hope that the current unprecedented madness is a factor of the potential of cloud models, and not a dismissal of the possibility of local models. It's the biggest swing we've seen (with the possible exception of cloud computing vs local virtualisation) but that may be due to recognition of the previous market behaviour, and a desperate need to not miss out on the current boom.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#439

Post by godelski »

tliltocatl wrote: post #424
godelski wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core Nah, the problem is people just want to hate on Mozilla. I mean even that Mastadon thread they bring up people hating on Mozilla for accepting crypto donations and are equating it to putting a miner in the browser. Like what a fucking joke. It's such a crazy exaggeration of what actually happened. Comp…

> money (which they desperately need) True. But crypto is bad publicity and everyone knows it. At that point it's no better than going out wearing a swastika sign (sorry, Poe's law triggered) and saying it's an ancient Buddhist symbol. > No, what FF is doing is implementing features like Translate (an ALREADY opt-in feature[0]) and semantic search Did you read my comment? The problem is that this takes focus away fro…

  > it's no better than going out wearing a swastika sign
Come on, I'm far from a crypto fanboy but this is just making my case. It's incredibly egregious. You can call crypto a bullshit fad loved by scammers without saying anyone that accepts it is a Nazi.

I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about the Wayback Machine, The EFF, or plenty of others who accept cryptocurrencies as payments.

And again, to equate it to shipping a miner in the browser is BEYOND EGREGIOUS. It is nothing short of laughable.

  > Than he doesn't need to talk about it at all.
We don't know the full context since it is summarized. Maybe he was explicitly asked. But honestly I read it as a bad joke along the lines of "we could be evil and greedy if we really wanted money, but we're not." But I don't know how you can read what was actually written as anything remotely close to suggesting they might even consider blocking ad blockers. At best it is making mountains out of mole hills but even that is being generous to your interpretation.

  > The thing is: Google started as "don't be evil" as well.
This is irrelevant at this point. At this point it doesn't matter if Mozilla is evil. It doesn't matter if Mozilla is more evil than Google. Mozilla has little to no power to capitalize on that evil. But Google does. And whatever the situation is, Google having competition and being tied up from implementing evil is a good thing. In the worst situation, assuming Mozilla is more evil than Google (lol), it buys us more time for another player who isn't evil to enter the space and gain browser market share. But if we let Google kill Firefox then that 3rd player is going to have a much harder barrier to entry.

So yeah, I'm sticking with laughable. Because all you're accomplishing is handing market share to Google. All you're doing is repeating the same thing that's been happening for years. Crypto, AI, whatever, it is the same thing. People grab their pitchforks to go after Mozilla at the slightest misstep and do nothing as Google tramples all over causing more damage than an evil Mozilla could even imagine. It is laughable.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#440

Post by rightbyte »

charcircuit wrote: post #338
protocolture wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's a browser that "just works." We can't have this if Firefox stays in the pre-ai era. Strongly disagree. Theres no expectation of AI as a core browsing experience. There isnt even really an expectation of AI as part of an extended browsing experience. We cant even predict reliably what AI's relationship to browsing will be if it is even to exist. Mozilla could reliably wait 24 months and follow if featur…

This is how Firefox fell behind Chrome and bled their entire market share. The strategy of letting Chrome out innovate them and then copy what they think is good is not a strategy that works.

I'm quite sure only "we" care about esoteric browser features.

"Does it have tabs? OK. Fine."

Firefox losing market share were probably more due to Google nagging desktop users than features.

What did Chrome have that Firefox didn't?

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