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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#411
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many thing are "here to stay", should Mozilla also implement a "share with TikTok" functionality into their browser? > or get left behind. Last time I heard this phrase it was about VR, and before that it was NFTs. I wished the tech community wasn't so susceptible to FOMO sentiments.

Non corporate VR is actually doing some interesting things - but yeah, what Meta did with it was pure garbage.

I didn't mean it as VR being useless - I'm sure it can be useful for some applications or fun for gaming - my point was that you shouldn't fear getting left behind just for not having an Apple Vision Pro app or a land in the Metaverse :)

Another way to see this: Hammers can be useful, the Internet can be useful, but this doesn't mean that as a hammer manufacturer you should make your next hammer an IoT product ASAP or you will be left behind.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I witnes far more people screaming against AI. If you shove it into people's faces, they will have knee jerk reaction and hate it. If the AI industry didn't desperately try to push it in every possible way in desperate bid to be profitable and it was just a thing that slowly gets better and is value added, not a nagging push, there would be far less of that. But companies like MS have idea of consent of average rap…

Add to that various hardware shortages caused by the AI mania or more examples of AI missuse and I wonder where we might end up eventually if people will get even angrier.

I’m quite sure that these shortages aren’t caused by mania, but oligopolies, and unpredictable countries. In undistorted markets, these should be way shorter. A year, or two maximum. At least that what supply side told us in 2020, and early 2021. It seems and predictions also say, that the shortages are with us long term. It’s even more telling that some companies leave markets where these “shortages” are, ie huge profit margins.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. They always did, everyone does. This is not really new, and not really that harmful in itself. The deeper problem is that you need developers who are also understanding what they are doing, what people want and need, developers who are nerdy about some topic and very deep into their understanding of it. But Mozilla seems to…

> and not really that harmful in itself Unless you can't afford the split focus. If Mozilla can do 1 thing right or 2 things half-assed, and it looks like this is the case, they should stop and focus on strengthening the core before hanging more stuff around it.

They have enough money to split their focus, sugar daddy Google is providing it.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#415
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how normal users stay on chrome while your users leave firefox. That's how you get no users at all.

Hardly. Hundreds of millions of "normies" want a browser that just "gets rid of ads and spam and stuff". If ff can be that go-to browser, they have hundreds of millions of potential users.

Potential users are not users, and firefox can't be that browser. Actually that browser is brave, and it also doesn't have hundred of millions of users. You can't fight defaults browsers, people don't care.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Firefox was sitting at 4% browser market share. If you include Brave you just get to 5%[0]. So truth is that privacy isn't enough to get people to switch. 5% share isn't enough to stay alive and protect privacy. > they are blindly implementing things before they are requested This is the job of every engineer. Your job is to understand the product and where it advances and where it can help the users.…

>This is the job of every engineer. No its not. Engineering is about right sizing the product. This is not that. Theres no user story, theres no pressing demand. Every CTO in the world might be racing to force AI into their products regardless of utility but there's no reason to pretend this is being done for good engineering reasons. >Work with customers and you'll experience this first hand. Theres no customer bene…

  > no customer benefit to shoving AI in every application at every layer.
What AI has been shoved down your throat?

Translate requires you to download the model for language pairs. That's opt-in.

The chatbots aren't chatbots, they're just a fucking shortcut to the 5th most popular website on the internet.

I hate to break it to you, but there's also a shortcut to the #1, #2, #4, #6, #7, #9, #10, and #13 most popular websites. It's the literal url bar... You can type "!w hacker news" to search wikipedia for hacker news.

Sorry, it is just as laughable to say firefox is shoving Wikipedia down your throat as it is to say they're shoving AI.

  > if they decided to randomly cram an opt out LLM into the distro,
Do you realize how big an LLM is? Clearly you don't. The browser isn't going to fit on a lot of people's computers if they shove an LLM in.

And hey, if you feel I'm wrong here go jump on a fork that isn't going to add those things like Mullvad or Waterfox. That's still supporting Firefox in the way of standing against Google while also making a clear signal that you don't want those features. Have your cake and eat it too, but I'm saying "Shut up with the talk that makes people switch to Chrome". We have to be honest with ourselves here. All this outrage at Mozilla for not being pure enough is just driving people to Chrome. That's why I'm calling all this fucking idiotic. It's a literal footgun. But don't listen to me look at what's happened in the past. Look at the comments here. Look at the comments in the past. FFS people were equating Mozilla accepting crypto donations with shipping a miner in the browser. It literally takes place in the Mastadon thread we're all talking about. Those things are wildly different and it is wildly a disingenuous interpretation.

So yeah, I'm going to keep calling this complaining idiotic and counterproductive. We've been grabbing our pitchforks for years every time Mozilla even slightly steps out of line, or even if we think they might! And for years their browser share has been siphoned off to Chrome or some painted up variant. So forgive me if I don't believe your actions align with the goals you claim. And forgive me if I cannot distinguish complaining from criticism, because as I've stated above, your evidence doesn't appear to be what you claim it is. Saying they're shipping LLMs is just as disingenuous as saying they shipped a crypto miner. It is such a grotesque mischaracterization that it is laughable.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. They always did, everyone does. This is not really new, and not really that harmful in itself. The deeper problem is that you need developers who are also understanding what they are doing, what people want and need, developers who are nerdy about some topic and very deep into their understanding of it. But Mozilla seems to…

> Didn't they say they will continue with Manifest v2? Yes and that's a good thing > Wasn't NPAPI mostly replaced with HTML5? It's true that what NPAPI was used for 99% of the time is better served by HTML5. But it's not like NPAPI was limited to Flash and applets. Afair NPAPI plugins can access all native resources (which is the reason why the security sucked so much), HTML5 obviously can't. E. g. runtime code gener…

> Then there are stuff like WebUSB/WebNFC/WebSerial that Mozilla killed.

Ah, true, Chrome has it, but Firefox not. Coincidental, some weeks ago I had to use this, worked well, and is another reason to always have an alternative browser around. Yes, Mozilla should work to at least fix that stuff.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+ Children are growing up with ChatGPT and Gemini. It has already become the de facto standard for learning. AI in browsers is inevitable.

"Children are growing up with ChatGPT and Gemini" Yes. "It has already become the de facto standard for learning." Maybe. "AI in browsers is inevitable." Why. How does that follow. It seems like ChatGPT and Gemini are already working fine, what does the integration add?

Filling out forms, booking tickets, summarizing content ...

Even at work, have seen few junior developers use AI browsers to attend mandatory compliance courses and complete quizzes. Not necessarily a good thing but AI browsers may win in the end and it might be too late for Firefox.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#419

I'm going to chime in here, I think 1. This is great and Mozilla is listening to it's core fans and 2. I want Firefox to be a competitive browser. Without AI enabled features + agent mode being first class citizens, this will be a non-starter in 2 years. I want my non-tech family members/friends to install Firefox not because I come over at Christmas, but because they want to. Because it's a browser that "just works.…

I am highly sceptical of all AI features and it seems Gardner and other cyber security experts are starting to wake up as well:

The programs let you outsource and automate tasks, such as online searches or writing an email, to an AI agent. The only problem is that these same AI capabilities can be tricked into executing malicious commands hidden in websites or emails, effectively turning the browser against the user.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/security-experts-warn-companies-t...

For now this is restricted to Perplexity Comet and OpenAI Atlas and only the UK has issued an official warning, but why would I, personally, want my Firefox browser with an opt-out risk instead of an opt-in?

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#420

I think people screaming "but AI is the future" doesn't recognize what the problem is. The problem is not AI. The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. There are a tons of "we bundled all the latest crap" Chrome forks out there. Nobody needs more those. Stop pushing bells and whistles. Give us more extensibility instead. Keep supporting v2 manifest and add more. Ther…

5 step plan for Mozilla to succeed against the Behemoth Googzilla and the leviathans of MAWS.

1. build a team in Europe to create an email service comparable to gmail/protonmail

- domains: mozmail.com, mmail.com, godmail.com, pmail.com, dogmail.com, meowmail.com

- promoted as a simple everyday email – no overly complicated/advanced federati features in order to increase inter-operability, reduce spam and dealing with federalism

- for more advanced features, integration links with something like signal, or a hosted comms platform

2. invest heavily in Firefox core development and service features

- push for system resource and performance optimizations, even if it requires extensive architectural changes

- focus on perfecting a core browser experience then developing an extension API that allows a level of UI customisations that XUL did, have unsafe/hackers warning for any extension that uses this API, even official ones

- invest in KeePassXC ux and integrate it as a first class and core feature in Firefox that is useable by hackers, consumers and enterprises – offer paid services for simple database sync/backup, as well as a decent managed solution for enterprise.

3. Expand further with a suite of other services that have both self-hosted and paid management extras

- calendar and email client, universally usable between providers, but first class with Firefox and mmail.

- integrate something like libreoffice into a desktop client that can also be embedded into a Firefox tab.

- straight forward self-hostable teams communication platform, managed cloud versions also availabe

- self-hosted / managed file storage platform with web UI with integration links to other services

- all of the above require a unified web, desktop and mobile ux

- offer further software and hardware integrations to completely streamline personal digital management

4. Extensive marketing and brand exposure over TV and social media, while staying charitably non-profit and recognizing the digital roots

- Use the firefox, gecko and other digital animals as icons

- Themes and scapes from origins such as mosaic/netscape

5. In this scene Mozilla continues knocking down the buildings of the titans.

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