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Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

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Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#431

Post by [deleted] »

enaaem wrote: post #423
danhak wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about my position seems insincere to you? You see no philosophical difference between the government mandating vaccination records for schools and public institutions like the military vs. them mandating vaccination records for private establishments such as gyms, irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those establishments? Should the government have the right to mandate vaccination records for entry to a p…

Pandemics are not a private issue. It's similar to a war. It can kill a significant percent of the population and it requires collective action to stop it.

[deleted]

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#432

Post by bcaulfield »

Interesting, but I'd need far more medical knowledge than I have to put this into context. Does this mean people with existing heart conditions should avoid these vaccinations? Does it mean those at otherwise very low risk for severe COVID-19 shouldn't bother? I sure dunno.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#433

Post by hammock »

CadmiumYellow wrote: post #414
hammock wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Complication from jab administration is something that has been widely discussed (not widely reported though). The clinical trials were supposed to show that the jab (and therefore the mRNA, and the resultant spike protein generated, which is known to be toxic) stayed in the muscle local to the injection site. What is widely speculated is that on some not-insubstantial portion of injections, the jab makes it int…

This is extremely fascinating to me as a layperson. Can you explain how this effect would be unique to mRNA? Like, could you get a flu shot and end up with some of the inactivated flu virus spreading around the body and sticking to other organs? Or is the spike protein collecting in other organs solely because the mRNA is telling those cells to produce it, whereas with a typical vaccine the dead virus could get into…

The difference between the covid jab and the flu vax has to do with the combination of a) mRNA turns your body into a "factory" to pump out a somewhat-unknowable and individually variable quantity of spike protein, and b) the spike protein "sticks to organs" as you put it (or more generally, is harmful), which is not something that e.g. a deactivated virion does

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#434

Post by [deleted] »

nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

[deleted]

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#435

Post by TacticalCoder »

claytongulick wrote: post #369
vannevar wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll d…

Many other people have replied with great information, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with: > The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. I believe the problem is that we were so convinced that our solution to covid was infallible that we removed…

> We coerced vaccination in the strongest possible ways shy of physical force.

Totally.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#436

Post by adamiscool8 »

librish wrote: post #389
adamiscool8 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be nice, but all they volunteer is that the adverse event rate is highest in the 30-50 year olds. Given that, I don’t think it makes a material difference

What makes you think that? Serious events for regular covid was heavily skewed towards the elderly.

Inference based on overall adverse events post-vaccination being lowest in elderly recipients, plus the early SAE warnings (myocarditis, etc.) being exclusively towards young adults.

Also more conspiratorially, because I think they would have provided the age-stratified data if it supported their objectives of improving lagging uptake among younger cohorts.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#437

Post by zhrvoj »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #388
claytongulick wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many other people have replied with great information, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with: > The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. I believe the problem is that we were so convinced that our solution to covid was infallible that we removed…

Yep. Fuck authoritarians! Never forget.

Pharma could go on with huge gains, just selling immunity boosters, like C, D vits, exposing to solar flares... But boosted with 'media', they were forced to take an "social" experiment. Instead, they even forbid going out, and in my town police chased couples sitting on the park bench!! MAdnESs!! My lungs and 55+ sorts me under vulnerables. Even my doctor argued, freightening me, explaining weak immunity, in spite of mentioned immunity boosters my mamma told me to take :) ! At the end my covid experience is funny - weak flu - good to stay at home - want one again! Divide and Conquer policy, don't you see?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#438

Post by dekhn »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #396
mcronce wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also like to yell and scream about how "science can't make up its mind" Yes, because that's how science works. When new information is acquired, new hypotheses are created and tested.

People were literally fired from their jobs, removed from 30+ year military careers, over the science , only for the science to keep changing. If science can't make up its mind and this is "how science works," anyone who thinks anything should be mandated based on science should be shot. You can't tell people something, have it directly and deeply affect their personal lives, then tell them something substantially di…

The military isn't a good example because they already have mandatory vaccines and those were completely supported, it wasn't until the fairly recent anti-vaccine drama (autism/mercury) mixed with the distrust of the establishment promoted by Trump, that military people (or right-wing media) began to turn this into an issue that people cared about.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#439

Post by CadmiumYellow »

hammock wrote: post #433
CadmiumYellow wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely fascinating to me as a layperson. Can you explain how this effect would be unique to mRNA? Like, could you get a flu shot and end up with some of the inactivated flu virus spreading around the body and sticking to other organs? Or is the spike protein collecting in other organs solely because the mRNA is telling those cells to produce it, whereas with a typical vaccine the dead virus could get into…

The difference between the covid jab and the flu vax has to do with the combination of a) mRNA turns your body into a "factory" to pump out a somewhat-unknowable and individually variable quantity of spike protein, and b) the spike protein "sticks to organs" as you put it (or more generally, is harmful), which is not something that e.g. a deactivated virion does

Thank you, I didn't really understand the distinction there re: the spike protein!

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#440

Post by gfodor »

littlestymaar wrote: post #215
gfodor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False, the idea that pure net deaths is the only way to think about all that happened is the common thread that people have been clinging to for far too long. It is time to wake up, and remember principles of bioethics, the risk of authoritarian coercive forces, and the nature of dehumanization campaigns. You do not mandate rapidly formulated, under-tested, frontier technology emergency drugs for all humans to work a…

Sorry to annoy you with the basics of public health policy. And the cost-benefit analysis being different for different age classes and comorbidity is exactly the reason why the vaccines was slowly expanded to larger demographics after starting with the most vulnerable people. In fact, the side effects of the vaccine have been much more thoroughly tracked than many pollutants that are routinely introduced in everybod…

I'm not part of any "guys", I'm not part of a tribe that you are imagining. I'm just someone who is vaccinated and thinks the mandates violate all traditional bioethical norms given what we have known for a while: the drug is experimental, under studied (no long term phase IV data), does not lead to herd immunity, has a novel mechanism, has a known serious side effect in 1 in 5k or so young men, and the risk of COVID is low in children, and there is a very real danger we are causing large scale subclinical heart damage to children by administering this drug so widely.

In other words, it should not be mandatory.

Public health policy is not entirely about risk vs reward - it's also a branch of medicine, and people who practice medicine have a code of ethics. Everyone acknowledges the risk vs reward choice is in favor of getting vaccinated for almost everyone. But it's a canard at this point, and is being used to gloss over an immense amount of truly horrible stuff that happened during the vaccination campaign of 2021.

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