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Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#431

Post by skyyler »

jmyeet wrote: post #319
zivkovicp wrote: post #137

Please excuse the long-winded answer... I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory (Intel CPU models). For the past few years I used a Microsoft Surface Pro because it seemed to have good build quality and high screen resolution, but despite this I have had to replace it as part of a recall due to a graphics hardware i…

The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard. But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat. The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish packa…

>EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?

>to a comment about laptop recommendations

The thread's title is "Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?"

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#432

Post by bee_rider »

ur-whale wrote: post #157
selfmodruntime wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious dev work is not done mostly on a small screen. Your laptop is a moveable computer that will be connected to your workstation monitor. I own a 14 inch macbook and rarely use it without a display.

If you use it hitched to a monitor, then why not have a proper workstation? The whole point of having a laptop is being able to use it on the go. I travel by train and plane extensively and I write code on it during the trips. 14 inches is unusable.

I think it depends on your eyesight and programs. I have a 13.3″ laptop, but I just use vim and a pretty small font. My favorite laptop ever was the Toshiba NB305. At 10.3″ it was a "one app full screen at a time" machine, but that was appropriate for the processing power anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#433

Post by jmyeet »

zivkovicp wrote: post #405
jmyeet wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard. But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat. The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish packa…

I haven't used the new generation of MacBooks yet, but I might request one from my employer just to get a feel for it. The Apple experience is more polished for sure, but after Linux, I doubt I will accept any form of proprietary OS/hardware for my personal computer ever again.

You can run Linux on Mac hardware. Linus Torvalds seems to have been doing this for the last decade.

Personally I find Linux desktop environments to be beyond awful with zero hope for salvation but to each their own. I certainly recognize a lot of the shortcomings of OSX but, more than anything, I don't want something I have to endlessly tinker with to get working (and keep working). For me, out of the box experience is paramount.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#434

Post by horsawlarway »

readingnews wrote: post #365
NorwegianDude wrote: post #174

You don't say where you are located, but unless you are in one of the few places where Dell doesn't offer on-site next business day support then XPS 13 is a great laptop. Their support is amazing: "We're not sure what is causing it, but we'll send someone to replace the whole motherboard tomorrow." "OH, your currently halfway across the world on a island? No problem, we'll be there tomorrow" I really don't understand…

I really do not understand the love the XPS 13 gets. We have several here at the office. We will never get them again. They break, the keyboard is not pleasant, the machine is not really fast, two handed openings are painful when you come from a different brand, charging it takes forever, we just leave them plugged in, switching wireless to wired in linux (several distros) takes too long, did I mention the keyboard m…

I have 2 in the XPS line - a relatively old 15 inch and a new(ish) 13 inch.

They're perfectly fine machines.

Dell officially supports linux on them (admittedly, only Ubuntu), you can get 32gb of RAM, and they perform just as well as any other intel based laptop (which is to say - I wish they sucked less power, but they're fine on the performance scale).

I'm... not a clean person with my machines, and I've never noticed any issues with the keyboards.

I have zero issues swapping wireless to wired (Arch linux) - it's basically instant for me, but I don't actually know how you're testing that, since none of the newer 13 models include an ethernet port (I use an adapter). Have you considered that you have a bad usb-ethernet adapter? Every one I've used is fine. Alternatively - are you sure you're not thinking of the Latitude line? Those are very different machines, which I also avoid.

Basically - I'd take an XPS every time over anything Lenovo puts out. I don't even really care about the hardware, I just think Lenovo can't be trusted a god damn inch. Chinese company selling computers with rootkits/MITM pre-installed. It was a sad day when IBM sold their personal computing line to them. I know a lot of folks still like the Thinkpads - but it's not worth it, IMO.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#435

Post by bee_rider »

pb7 wrote: post #325
SpacePortKnight wrote: post #144

I've seen your post as a comment before. For India, I recommend buying Dell / Lenovo if you really want on-site repairs for cheap, otherwise I recommend Asus. I recently bought Asus Zenbook 14 Oled (12th gen) over M1 MacBook Air and I absolutely love it. It has 75Wh battery, excellent speakers and with a nice 90Hz 14inch display. However, I can't use Fedora on it since sound over speaker doesn't work yet. Dell's Insp…

It’s completely unreasonable to not be able to play audio through your built in speakers in 2022 (or even 2002). The things people will justify to keep using Linux is insane.

The speakers work fine on mine, but I have to say they aren't much of a killer feature. How often do you use your laptop speakers? Even if you cheap out, it is pretty difficult to find a pair of headphones that sound worse than laptop speakers.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#436

Post by bee_rider »

janfoeh wrote: post #294

Apologies in advance for being off-topic, but — is it just my perception, or has it become increasingly common over the last year or two to end questions with _in _? I vaguely associate that with SEO spam sites, and I feel a little pinch each time I see an actual person pick up that pattern. It is as if a black hat SEO trope has invaded our consciousness.

I read it as a general expression of dissatisfaction with the state of things.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#437

Post by mort96 »

Biganon wrote: post #393
eastbound wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then XPS 13 is a great laptop. No, clearly not. Apart from the overheating the first experience you’ll have is opening it: You pull the screen upwards, but the hinge is too strong, so the bottom comes with the screen, and then since the handle is slippery you lose the screen and the whole block slams on the desk. That’s on paar with the DELL experience. Pretty much everything is wrong about it.

Every single laptop does this, except bulky Lenovos. Is it really too hard to use both hands? How many times a day do you open your laptop anyway? Let alone with one hand unavailable?

Nah, even the lightest macbooks can be opened with one hand. Has a useful notch in the bottom case too so grip isn't a problem.

It's not a big deal at all, I certainly wouldn't list it as a reason to not get a laptop like your parent comment does; it probably wouldn't even factor in to my decision. But it's certainly not a problem in all thin-and-lights.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#438

Post by camgunz »

gmokki wrote: post #338
camgunz wrote: post #272

I bought an MBP 14" (Max, 32 core GPU, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD) which I mostly don't regret. The things that give me pause are the battery life is only (only, haha) 9 hours or so, the resolution isn't ideal (the integer scaling options are either tiny or gigantic) and it was... $3,700? If I'd bumped down to the pro I would've saved money and gotten better battery life. When I made this decision, I was between the Framework…

I got T14s AMD gen2 a year ago, with 4k display, 32GB. Swapped the wifi card to Intel ax210, since back then year ago the realtek was not yet supported by kernel. Since end of mast year, after few bios updates, it has worked flawlessly. Battery lasts long with 5850U while using and suspend works properly and can last many days when not used. The new models with Ryzen 6000 series look to be na excellent upgrade with u…

Oh yeah good call out: swap the WiFi card, even when it's supported the Realtek one is slower.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#439

Post by cpburns2009 »

keyle wrote: post #86

Can anyone comment on System76 vs. Framework and what you chose or maybe if you used both?

I have a Galago Pro 5 without the dedicated Nvidia GPU. It's a nice, lightweight, 14" laptop with an upper aluminum shell. I'm running Manjaro on it, and it runs great with a decent battery life (roughly 6 hours?) while programming.

The Framework laptop intrigues me but I ultimately wanted something less experimental.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#440

Post by wyclif »

sgarland wrote: post #382
jmyeet wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard. But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat. The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish packa…

> M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. I don't get it, either. What Apple did with the M1 is nothing short of incredible. I bought a stock M1 Air (as in, 8 GB RAM model, since that's what stores carry) as my personal laptop a few months after launch, and could not be happier. The _only_ time I've experienced any issues w…

Also, no heat issues. And I don't ever think I've heard the fan spin up on the M1 MBP, and I've hardly been conservative with loads on it. They're great laptops.
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