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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#431

Post by pinephoneguy »

jpgvm wrote: post #386
Lascaille wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Australia gets by just fine with standardized testing only, don't see why America can't as well. Because when the results align along racial boundaries and votes (and therefore power) can be won by 'combating' that 'discrimination' policies follow accordingly.

What? If you think standardized testing is benefiting white/rich Australians you are horrendously mistaken. Asian Australians disproportionally destroy the affluent white Australian population on standardized tests as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder. As a result they have priority access to medicine and law degrees, again, as they fucking should. If someone is going to work harder for so…

The same is true in the US but reality doesn't matter.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#432

Post by temp8964 »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #426
temp8964 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's all about life choices. Many Chinese immigrants never go to bars / night clubs, and almost never eat outside, and almost never travels. They save all the money for their kids' education. Some other ethnic groups, even low-income families frequently spend money on those things. Yes. It's your right to spend the money the way you like. But you don't get to cry for no money for education when you spend mon…

Because some cultural differences are different than others. And the ones that are especially detrimental won't change unless people of that demographic are exposed to and learn from successful people who engage in beneficial habits that solve the issue.

I don't think most people would change their behaviors even after they are exposed to other cultures.

There is an opposite force to prevent you from engaging in "beneficial habits". In Blacks kids, there is a commonly known term called "acting White". Kids can actually be laughed at for studying hard.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#433

Post by shadowgovt »

someguydave wrote: post #397
shadowgovt wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedom of assembly is specifically the freedom that was curtailed by the Civil Rights Act. Legally, it should be added... The freedom protected in the first amendment is the freedom of political assembly. The Civil Rights Act has been argued repeatedly in the Supreme Court, and the court has ruled repeatedly that the constitutionally protected freedom of assembly is not curtailed by requiring corporations, incor…

Amazing that the first part of the first amendment does not only apply to political speech. The court was wrong and will be wrong again. I would ask how progressives square two contradictory interpretations of the first amendment but then I realized they don’t really support the freedom of non-progressive speech anymore.

Sorry, that was an error on my part: freedom of association (in the context of providing public accomodation) was curtailed by the Civil Rights Act, not assembly. And your beef isn't with progressives if that's something you're taking issue with; it's with a couple generations of the Supreme Court, which is considered a relatively conservative branch of the government.

(IANAL disclaimer) The freedom of association has been implied by analogy to be protected by the explicitly-enumerated freedom to peaceably assemble in the First Amendment, in some specific cases. But it's a loose protection by analogy; the letter of the First Amendment doesn't even mention a freedom of association. The SCOTUS has not ruled that the freedom of association extends to a freedom to exclude in public accommodation; in layman's terms, the reasoning is "You have the freedom to serve as many people as you want, but that does not imply a freedom to not serve other people if you want to operate under the corporate charter that the government grants."

This overview describes things much better than I can. https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/first-amendment-...

> The court was wrong and will be wrong again.

No doubt, but I don't think you'll find a receptive ear (in the public or in legal circles) to the notion that the Court has been wrong regarding upholding the Civil Rights Act.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#434

Post by pyronik19 »

mbg721 wrote: post #296
DocTomoe wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wanted to rephrase that: The cornfield-state-school teaches you how to be a better serf. Ivy League teaches you how to become a master. It's no coincidence that most founders come from ivy-league schools.

But not everybody can go and be slavemasters, so if you're going to pick arbitrarily who can do it, why not use race in the criteria? Everybody can know how atoms work, and read Cicero, and figure out where on the shore a boat traveling diagonally will land if the wind is picking up at a given rate. Increasing the human knowledge pie in that way is what universities claim to do.

> why not use race in the criteria?

We used to do that, wasn't it called Jim Crow?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#435

Post by busterarm »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #201
root_axis wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the increased chances of admission, black students make up a modest 5% of the (e.g.) Harvard student body compared to Asian students and white students at 13% and 40% respectively. Ultimately, I can't justify the idea of rejecting students based on race, but when I look at those demographics I just don't see much to get worked up about. From a more cynical angle the problem almost seems like "the total percen…

> Ultimately, I can't justify the idea of rejecting students based on race, but when I look at those demographics I just don't see much to get worked up about. If you look at those particular stats, sure, it doesn't sound particularly objectionable. But if you look at others: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/politics/harvard-affirmative-... > Under questioning from SFFA lawyer John Hughes, Fitzsimmons detailed some of…

They can still deny you even then. The Asian discrimination was already heavy in the early 00s when I was finishing high school.

A close friend of mine had perfect scores in basically everything and Harvard turned him down on the basis of "we already accepted your older brother and it wouldn't be fair of us to take two of you".

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#436

Post by quadrifoliate »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #401
ransom1538 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered if these parents raising test ninjas are doing their kids favors. We have google now. I don't need to know the capital of Ukraine - I can just google it. STEM is great to study, but most of the academics in it after 8th grade are not particularity useful. I still haven't been asked to solve a differential equation at work. I have never been asked what school I went to during an interview (i wished t…

Agreed. And test taking may not be the best criteria to judge people by.

I put in an explicit edit at the bottom of my post now to clarify – I think test prep is terrible to. The important part was cultural factors valuing STEM enough to pay for test prep, not the prep itself.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#437

Post by scarmig »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #234
kerneloftruth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Oh there is one that's forming, indeed. Asian-Americans are now called "white adjacent": https://www.asian-dawn.com/2020/11/17/school-district-catego...

Sometimes they're called "white adjacent". Mostly they're just called "white", or "lily-white". Here's Eugene Volokh writing about it in 1998: https://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/asian.htm

I think the preferred practice nowadays for elected officials in more progressive areas is to call Asians "house n****rs."

https://missionlocal.org/2021/03/alison-collins-school-board...

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#438

Post by kerneloftruth »

Manuel_D wrote: post #36
woodruffw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion ; they are interested in more inclusion .

Proportional representation is inherently fixed sum. If X% of one group is too low and you want to increase it, then increasing that representation must also reduce the representation of other groups. There's no way around this. The change to subjective admissions criteria that led to a drop from 73% Asians to under 50% at Thomas Jefferson could be said to be more inclusive of the races that saw increased representat…

So, racist policy (including or excluding based on race) is okay if you can rationalize it? Racism isn't absolutely bad... it's only that depending on who is doing it?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#439

Post by quantum_solanum »

someguydave wrote: post #335
SyzygistSix wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it seem like the US no longer has an issue when there's an entire class of people who are not being educated, has high crime, and ending in mass incarceration. I can accept that some people have an issue with current liberal ideas because they think they don't work. If so, what is going to work? Or is the current state inevitable in order to have the high-functioning economy that the US has? Certainly more H…

Plenty of people-groups have endured horrible abuses and have not turned into a criminal underclass. Therefore, other groups are not responsible for any particular group’s criminality. As to what might work I would consider medicine or genetic augmentation maybe?

> As to what might work I would consider medicine or genetic augmentation maybe?

you're a fucking nazi freak, foh with this Mengele shit

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#440

Post by giantg2 »

alistairSH wrote: post #427
giantg2 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Among other things, standardized testing requirements were eliminated, and subjective admission criteria were added in an effort to deny slots to Asian-Americans and boost enrollment among blacks and Hispanics." Emphasis mine. They added subjective criteria. That's the problem. Removing standardized tests and relying on GPA or something would be fine.

A holistic review will be done of students whose applications demonstrate enhanced merit; 550 seats will then be offered to the highest-evaluated students. Students will be evaluated on their grade point average (GPA); a student portrait sheet where they will be asked to demonstrate Portrait of a Graduate attributes and 21st century skills; a problem-solving essay; and experience factors, including students who are e…

"... and experience factors, including students who are economically disadvantaged, English language learners, special education students, or students who are currently attending underrepresented middle schools."

I would think this would be the more problematic part. It's not based on achievement/performance but based on status. It sounds as if they give preference points for people with low income, from underrepresented schools, etc.

"Either way, the policy was race-blind, at least in language."

That can be said about the old policy too, right?

"Disallowing progress..."

Here is the real meat of the debate. How do the parties define progress? Is it progress to add subjective measures that favor some groups? And should be we be striving for equality or equity?

So, equity or equality, and why? What is the definition of progress and how do you measure that in the scope of education?

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