Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#431

Post by judge2020 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #293

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each. Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without…

Contrarily, MSFT being the one to approve all code would be good in that it would destroy the current Windows code signing racket that only six companies have access to[0].

0: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/da...

(thankfully MSFT is indeed working on their own first-party code signing solution https://youtu.be/Wi-4WdpKm5E)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#432

Post by keepper » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

...or Apple could be a true platform and not compete unfairly?

You know, just a thought.

They want secure app distribution? Great! Build an equitable charge model. Charge for transactions, charge for usage, don’t charge flat rates that don’t scale. Certainly don’t prohibit other payment gateways.

And certain don’t punish your competitors in ways you don’t punish yourself. ( blanket certificate removals for a company and all its subsidiaries)

The ends do not justify the means. Apple can run a profitable and secure app distribution platform. It requires being open and fair. They are not doing that.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#433

Post by NationalPark » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

pennaMan wrote: post #220

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

Before Apple blessed us with it's ground breaking technology to restrict the software you are allowed to have on your own device we did just fine getting software on our devices using a file system and the internet.

Come on, we all remember what it was like going to Source Forge and trying to figure out which download button got you the malware you were actually trying to install. Don't pretend like that was a utopia.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#434

Post by matsemann » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #105

It’s all about money. I don’t think epic wants a new App Store. In fact I do t think the majority of developers with legitimate complaints with the App Store want competing app stores. They all want, from what I can boil down to, the majority of the time, two things: 1. Control over payments (to cut out the 30%) 2. More control over releases and updates (particularly upgrade pricing) I think if Apple caved in on thes…

3. Not having Apple make a competing product where they get 100% of the revenue and 30% of your revenue. (Which is the case Spotify is arguing over)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#435

Post by doublejay1999 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

Epic know they can't win this using the Law. Apple will argue they built a market of nBillion customers, which anyone can access for a fee.

What Epic hope to do, is win commercial support and build pressure on apple to lower their fees. Might work too.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#436

Post by enragedcacti » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #195

flenserboy wrote: post #38

I can't shake the feeling that Epic is a puppet, being used as a wedge to hash security on iOS devices. As much as it would be nice to have more control over one's iPhone, the horror of the Android marketplace is enough to give a body more than a little pause.

Look into who owns Epic .

Tim Sweeney is the controlling shareholder of Epic. If Tim Sweeney decides to do something there is literally nothing TenCent could do to stop him outside of a lawsuit.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#437

Post by efdee » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

BrianGragg wrote: post #214

SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

There is no choice being taken away - you don't have a choice at this point - you must use "the" App Store whether you like it or not.

Maybe the Apple App Store can get it's shit together and present a less hostile environment so these companies are able/willing to distribute on the Apple App Store again, and then you'll actually have a choice.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#438

Post by munificent » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Hypocrisy doesn't really exist at the corporate or political level today. Imagine you're playing chess with a friend. Would you call it "hypocritical" if they took you queen but didn't want to let you take theirs? Is it "lying" if you try to appear to be making an attack when really it's a feint? No, it's simply playing the game according to its rules against an enemy adversary.

Of course, that behavior makes sense in chess because the entire point of a game is to be an artificial world where only the letter of the rules are what matters and the only tangible outcome is winning or losing.

In the real world of business and politics, things like human decency and fairness should come into play. But increasingly, at least in American politics and corporations, the game is played only according to the letter of the law. Anything they can get away with, they will.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#439

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

These app store requirements are ridiculous. An app store is something that should be 'up and running' when a user wants to buy an app, not to serve as the continuous anchor point on a users device to fleece them further. This has really gotten out of hand.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#440

Post by gscott » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

doublejay1999 wrote: post #435

Epic know they can't win this using the Law. Apple will argue they built a market of nBillion customers, which anyone can access for a fee. What Epic hope to do, is win commercial support and build pressure on apple to lower their fees. Might work too.

Apple tried to wear Samsung down by suing them in different jurisdictions at the same time. Might work for Epic.