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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#431

Post by colejohnson66 »

Goronmon wrote: post #384
mcv wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. You have no idea what's what anymore by looking at it. Everything seems to fit together, but if you do it, you damage your devices. It would have been better if they'd launched another dozen different plug standards. In situations when there's only one thing you should be connecting to your device, that's the way to go. Universal sockets only make sense…

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. Nothing above seems related to the standard. At the end of the day, its still comes down to the manufacturers to follow the standard in order for everything to to work. But the standard itself can't stop any particular manufacturer from making a non-compliant product.

There are trademarks on the USB logos, so the USB consortium not enforcing their trademark on standards violators (using their logo) is something they could do, but don’t.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#432

Post by ryanianian »

josho wrote: post #98
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

Don't cheap out on a USB-C hub: get a Thunderbolt 3 hub.

I have a few CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 hubs. They're great. 4k monitor, gigabit ethernet, a number of USB-3 devices, and power-delivery for my Macbook. They are decidedly not cheap, but I wasted a lot of money on plain USB-C hubs (not Thuderbolt 3 which uses the same port but is not the same) that are now effectively trash.

I've got one at all of the "workstations" in the house. Tired of working in the bedroom? Unplug one cable and move to the office that has an identical setup and everything works and is easy.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#433

Post by rhacker »

julianlam wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems like I'm the only person with absolutely zero issues with USB-C. I have a Lenovo monitor that delivers power+HDMI+usbhub to my laptop, and having to only plug one thing in to access all my peripherals is amazing. I used a bog standard Anker USB-C cable for this.

Definitely not alone. I have a USB A headset. I have a new macbook pro with USB(C/thunderf*ck?) adapter that lets me use this headset on my mac. No biggy.

Anyway one day I was like, huh, I bet this won't work, but I plugged my Mac adapter into my Oneplus phone, with the USB A headset attached. The phone actually detected the headset, including the volume up/down button built in.

So yes, USB-C simplified my life.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#434

Post by numpad0 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #308
dheera wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were legal protections around this. Using a standard plug means it should accept the standard for that plug.

I wish the same about people who sell adapters for plugging 15A electrical devices into 25A electrical outlets. Sadly, the legal burden is placed exclusively on the buyer (via electrical code).

You can’t “oversupply” electrical current(Amps), only voltages(Volts). Current is drawn and determined by Ohm’s law.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#436

Post by sbierwagen »

crote wrote: post #252
josho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

I own a 4k @ 60Hz monitor. If I were to buy a laptop, I'd like to connect it and a bunch of USB devices via a single USB C cable. Easy, right? Except that the monitor only supports DisplayPort 1.2. 4k60 requires a bandwidth of 12.54 Gbit/s. DP 1.2 consists of four data lanes, each providing 4.32 GBit/s, so my monitor requires four full lanes. DP 1.3 and up provide at least 7.48 Gbit/s, so 4k60 would only require two…

An external GPU box would work for you, since the offboard GPU would have a full-bandwidth link to the monitor. Depending on which GPU you put in it, though, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new monitor.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#437

Post by floatingatoll »

blinky1456 wrote: post #392
floatingatoll wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the same about people who sell adapters for plugging 15A electrical devices into 25A electrical outlets. Sadly, the legal burden is placed exclusively on the buyer (via electrical code).

Why does it matter if you plug 15amp device into a 25amp oulet? Surely It will only use 15amps unless it short circuits?

It matters if it short circuits, yes. (Electricians, I hope I got this right enough to convey the 'why'; I know it won't be perfect.)

The outlet plugs specify the circuit breaker limit. Most consumer electronics in the US use a 15amp plug, which can be plugged into a 15amp outlet or a 20amp outlet — but no higher, due to physical incompatibilities in the outlet design.

The electronics that use the 15amp or 20amp plugs are therefore built not only to draw no more than the amps rated by their plugs, but also to self-destruct relatively safely if they draw the maximum amps available from the circuit breaker backing that plug.

So if a cheap device correctly assumes as part of its "don't explode" protections that it will never receive more than 20amps due to using a 15-or-20 amp plug, and then it short circuits while plugged into a 25 amp circuit using an adapter, it could very well explode, because the basic guarantees of electrical safety were violated. The plug used guaranteed it would never receive more than 20amp, and now it's receiving 25!

This is especially relevant when you're considering how to make use of an idle 30A dryer outlet in a garage. If you just plug an adapter into it, and your device short circuits, it will explode even more violently. Risk of harm increases with outlet power.

There exist fancy "breaker box" adapters that have a 30A plug on one side, a fuse box with a 15A or 20A fuse in the middle, and a 15A outlet on the other side for you to use. It's not really an adapter at that point, but the presence of that 15A/20A fuse provides the missing piece of protection for your 15A/20A device that a plain adapter wouldn't have.

So in summary, the only way to safely use a 15amp device on an outlet that delivers power higher than 15-20A is to somehow inline a 15-20A breaker between the device and the outlet (or, to rewire the outlet and its power feed to 15-20A).

TL;DR: Hire a licensed electrician to tell you what your options are and decide how much you care to spend and whether you want to make permanent modifications to get the job done.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#438

Post by numpad0 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #263
rolobio wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my research a few years ago, this is caused by the Switch asking the charger for 20V, but it actually expects 15V. The Nintendo charger obeys this hidden rule, but any other charger will happily provide 20V. I think the difference between a 20V and 15V charge isn't significant enough to blow the Switch up the first time you use it, but, over time it will blow up.

Is this a purposefully-engineered flaw to reduce confidence in 3rd party chargers?

More like Gen 1 Switch hardware was designed too early in USB-C era.

It’ll probably be fixed in future generations but Nintendo decided not to make design changes for Gen 1 and Gen 2 Switch to fully comply with USB-C PD specs.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#439

Post by netcan »

TOGoS wrote: post #391
netcan wrote: post #91

Douglas Adams on Dongly Things: http://douglasadams.com/dna/980707-03-a.html Spolsky on Martian headsets: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/03/17/martian-headsets/ It turns out that making power/data cables work without irritating the hell out humanity as a whole is a task that humans are uniquely unsuited to solving. We'll have to wait for AI or aliens to fix this. Meanwhile, stop expecting the next standard to wo…

Douglas Adams wants a standard 12V connector? Those 2.1mm barrel plugs are basically that. Most any 12V LED strip you buy from amazon will come with jacks already attached and maybe include a power supply. Half the small electronic devices I buy (USB hubs, Ethernet switches, external hard drives) use it, though sometimes they want 9V instead of 12.

Yep, but if he was still around he'd still have to have articles about how he has rooms full of little dongly things and doesn't want any more.

He was one of us. Believed problems like these could be solved. It turned out that the problem of having to own a collection of dongly things cannot be solved. It turns out that they are intrinsic to human nature.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#440

Post by univerio »

JAlexoid wrote: post #382
_v7gu wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dock is a special case and requires some specific voltage/amperage support. But the switch itself abides by EU regulations.

65W Apple charger.... My Lenovo 65W USB-C charger had no issues at all.

The Switch dock requires the 15V PD profile, which the (old) 61W adapter from 2016 did not support, but the newer 61W adapter from 2018 does.
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